I believe this:

The vast majority of American's ansestors were immigrants (yes in huge masses too)

I have no problem with immigration, so long as those immigrating come here to embrase and appreciate this country, not to exploit it. Some do, and some don't.

It's the industry and the economy here in the USA that has contributed to this mass immigration problem coming from south of the boarder. To be honest, there are just too many jobs out there that most Americans will simply not do anymore We've just become too good for it

I do agree that many immigrants came to this country in the old days and were very progressive either after arrival or a generation later. Though we still have many Americans here who are of the non-progressive variety, some of which are unemployed middle-aged white anglo-saxon males who always seem to have plenty of time to call into talk radio shows to express their sour opinions and blame eveyone else for their own setbacks

Also, and read this carefully, because this is no joke! As long as greedy corporations in this country keep finding new ways to cut corners and save money, they will continue to outsource our jobs (even white collar jobs) to developing foreign countires. Soon corporate America will employ so few Americans that we will not be able to afford these companies products or crappy services. As a result we, the average American citizen will find ourselves immigrating ourselves and families to other countries just to find work. So many people criticize the Mexican immigrants now, but make no mistake, as long as trends continue, we just might be in the same situation in the not too distant future

I keep hearing about the jobs Americans won't do - what jobs are we talking about? I see Americans working in all types of jobs. Now if you say that Americans won't do jobs that pay less than minimum wage or without proper safety equipment, working conditions, etc. then maybe you have a point. But no one should be subjected to dangerous working conditions or recieve less than minimum wage.

And I don't agree that we need immigrants. We have a large enough population and do not need to have people immigrate here. I can go along with a guest worker program, but we should restrict immigration so that there are enough resources for those of us already here.

Illegal immigrants are criminals - plain and simple. All have violated immigration laws and many have committed identy theft and fraud. Yes, they are criminals and do not belong here.

They say we can't send 12 million illegal immigrants. To that I say, BS!!! We can't send them all back immediately, but there should never be amnesty and we should send them back one at a time until the job is done.

Finally, the first thing we must do is secure our borders. Not only to protect against illegal immigration, but also terroist attacks.

I'm not going to totally disagree, as you have some valid points, but......gee if we sent them all back then some people here wouldn't have an object to focus all of their hate at Oh my....what would they do then????? I think, in fact I know that most of this "protect our boarders" talk has nothing to do with protecting our boarders, it's all just pathetic racially motivated hate towards a certain group of people i.e. poor, under educated, dark skinned people from south of our boarder. I hear very few Americans complain about the droves of recent eastern european and russian immigrants who have brought organized crime to our shores. Besides it's pretty ignorant to actually think that if we sent them all back that our economy and industries wouldn't be affected in a negative way to some degree.

Seriously, it makes me sick and disgusted too to see thousands of immigrants rally for citizenship, yet wave the flag of their own country on state capitals around this country, even at the nations capital. They should be waving the red, white, and blue flag of the United States. I mean if you want to become a citizen and have the same rights granted under our Constitution, then fly our flag, not the flag of your country of origin ,)

But....terrorists do not come from south of the boarder. In fact despite the most destructive and cowardly 9/11 attack and the 1993 Trade Center attack, the vast majority of terrorist acts committed within our boarders are commited by domestic extreamist terrorist groups- i.e. KKK, neo-nazis, anti-government survivalist groups, christian extreamists, gangs, black panthers, etc. You may recall, the United States Goverment executed one young fellow not too long ago for his involvement in a huge devistaing event that killed may innocent people in Oklahoma City. Some people who claim to be honest Americans aren't always friendly towards this great nation.

Those illegal aliens are criminals eh? Well maybe so, but what about all of those Italian and Sicilian immigrants who came to this country at the end of the 1800's and early 1900's. Most of them gained legal U.S. citizenship and many of those people caused some of the worst violence and organized crime our country has ever seen. Ever see movies like the Godfather series or Good Fellas? People fail to grasp just how accurate those films depict what those immigrants did and how they conducted their lives. Yet as generation sprang from those immigrants many of their decendents have become very productive members of society today.

You talk about low (below minimum wage) paying jobs under hazardous conditions that no one should be doing. I agree, but what do you say to your local rooky police officer or firefighter. Ask those guys what they make per year. It may not be minimum wage, but it may as well be for the danger they encounter daily. Seriously, those guys and gals don't make nearly what they should be making to risk their lives doing an extreamly dangerous job daily. Ask yourself if that relatively low pay is worth them placing themselves in the daily danger that they do to proct people like you and me.

I was at my local Lowes store recently and was amazed at how few people they had working there one friday evening. I asked an employee why they have no one to ring me up. His reply: "no one wants to work on a friday evening". Hmm not really a hazardous minimum wage paying job, and Lowes usually hires Americans who can speak English

I've asked the managers of several fast food joints, and ice cream shops why I can't find anyone of their employees who speak English? The same reply always: "English speaking American high school kids just don't apply for these types of jobs anymore"

Have a casual acquantance who I meet years ago in Vermont. He owns a dairly farm there in Vermont. Same thing, he can't seem to find good farm hands who are English speaking Americans anymore. All the best farm workers are those who grew up living hard lives and are used to harsh working conditions, yes Mexican immigrants Farm work has always been a tough, dirty, and to some extent "dangerous".

These are just a few small example of what I was refering to in my original reply.

Somehow I believe that if the majority of immigrants today were of white western european origin, then most of us here in the USA wouldn't have such a big problem with immigration. Would they??? I find it terribly and almost sadly funny how everyone questions the so-called dirty dark skinned swarthy hispanic people or the southeast asian about their legal status, yet no one ever questions the folks with British accents and ask if they're here legally. When I lived and worked in the north eastern part of the U.S. for a while I knew many young British people who were here illegally, and many many many many more Canadians who too were here illegally, yet no American ever had a problem with them . Somehow I think it goes beyond the idea of legal status and the excuse of "protecting our boarders". I'll say it again: Perhaps some extream racial prejudice is the fuel for this fire

Yes, I do believe that English is and should always be the official language of the United States of America, and that all immigrants should learn it fluently before being allowed U.S. citizenship.

I think the next time anyone want's to critisise immigrants who come here to exploit the opportunities that the USA offers, consider this: The vast majority of white Americans are decendents from immigrants. Immigrants from the under-class of european society. People who came here to escape oppression and tyrany form the old world. If they arrived before the founding of this great country then they came here to exploit the opportunities that were available in the colonies. They didn't come here to embrase this land either. Patriotism???? Get real, that word or concept didn't even exist here until after about 1776 or 1777. Americans who's ansestors came here much before the Revolusionary war shouldn't even attempt to claim that they came here to embrase this great land, because they didn't. Not even the pilgrms who sailed here on the Mayflower. They came here to exploit this land too, just like all the others before them. You think we should send back all the illegals today?? Maybe!! But, unless you can claim to be a full blooded American Indian, then your ansestors came from somewhere else too!!!!!

"I think, in fact I know that most of this "protect our boarders" talk has nothing to do with protecting our boarders, it's all just pathetic racially motivated hate towards a certain group of people i.e. poor, under educated, dark skinned people from south of our boarder. I hear very few Americans complain about the droves of recent eastern european and russian immigrants who have brought organized crime to our shores."

Are you suggesting that there is 12 million illegal european and russian immigrants in this country? Of course not because we don't have a major problem of ILLEGAL immigration from those countries. Yes, there is illegal immigrants of all nationalities, but not to the degree that we see from the south.

Another major difference is you don't see other nationalities flaunting their illegal status marching through our streets.

But....terrorists do not come from south of the boarder.

Yet - it is an open invitation and a major security breach. It must be closed. Just because terrorist haven't entered through the south doesn't mean they won't or we should keep it open.

"Those illegal aliens are criminals eh? Well maybe so, but what about all of those Italian and Sicilian immigrants who came to this country at the end of the 1800's and early 1900's. "

And did we give them amenesty or did we prosecute them for their crimes. We branded them criminals, prosecutred and jailed them. Why? Because they broke the law.

Again, another difference between those LEGAL immigrants and the illegal ones here today is the legal ones assimilated into American society - they became Americans. Many of the illegal aliens don't want to be American. They want to earn money and return to their home country.

"You talk about low (below minimum wage) paying jobs under hazardous conditions that no one should be doing. I agree, but what do you say to your local rooky police officer or firefighter. Ask those guys what they make per year."

Not germaine to this discussion, but I'll address it. Yes, there are many occupations in this country that are "underpaid." Why? I guess we value certain occupations and not others. Is it right? Of course not.

"I was at my local Lowes store recently and was amazed at how few people they had working there one friday evening. I asked an employee why they have no one to ring me up. His reply: "no one wants to work on a friday evening". Hmm not really a hazardous minimum wage paying job, and Lowes usually hires Americans who can speak English "

Great - hire an illegal alien to work Fridays. Won't be able to communicate with anyone, but at least the store won't see empty.

"Have a casual acquantance who I meet years ago in Vermont. He owns a dairly farm there in Vermont. Same thing, he can't seem to find good farm hands who are English speaking Americans anymore.

Solution: Enact a guest worker program.

"Somehow I believe that if the majority of immigrants today were of white western european origin, then most of us here in the USA wouldn't have such a big problem with immigration. Would they??? "

If there were millions of illegal russians protesting in the streets today the outcry would be the same. It has nothing to do with race. I live in a high hispanic area and the legal hispanic community is very vocal about the illegals. They do not support them and want to close the borders too.

Maybe!! But, unless you can claim to be a full blooded American Indian, then your ansestors came from somewhere else too!!!!!

Yes, my ancestors did immigrate from Europe, but they did so legally and quickly became contributing members of American society. They also worked for meager wages, did jobs that other Americans didn't want to do and never complained.

They learned English and taught their children English. They flew the American flag and loved this country despite discrimination by "Americans." Why? Because they wanted to be American and wanted their children to grow up in this great land.

This opportunity is available for Europeans, Mexicans, Central and South Americans and everyone else. Just follow the rules and don't think you have a right to break the law to get to the head of the line. Wait your turn like everyone else, don't steal identies or SS numbers and become American when it is your turn.

Very well said CVC. Overall I think you and I both see eye to eye on this subject.

Don't get me wrong from my posts here. I don't mean to get so hot about the subject. I'm in no way defending illegals who come here from any nation and break our laws, trash our cities, and create a huge blackmarket for identity theft. Yes it's a serious problem, and yes something needs to be done.

It's obvious that a great many of those illegals don't want to become American citizens either. maybe they are just too ignorant to know any better, but that's no excuse. Gee rallying in the street, boasting their illegal status, waving the flags of other nation instead of the American flag........yeah, doing that really doesn't do them any favors as far as gaining support from most patriotic Americans.

We need to fight it as the problem it really is. I've just heard some pretty foul and racist comments regarding this subject (not from you or anyone here) from a lot of people over the years and I think that sometimes that mentallity makes people miss the whole seriousness of dilema. Oh I suppose we all have our predudice in some form or another But, we should not allow it to cloud our minds and prevent us from seeing things as they really are.

The facts are the facts and you seem to understand them as do I.

You are right about each of having our own predjudices. Anyone who says otherwise is not being true to themselves.

For instance, I am much less sympathetic to those in the lower economic class of this country than my wife. I believe is is my heritage that makes me so - my grandparents came to this country not speaking the language, uneducated and discriminated against, but perservered and made a good life for their familiy. Hence, I think the opportunity is here so I am not very sympathetic to those that whine about their plight. Work two jobs if necessary, put your kids through school and sacrifice so the next generation can have it better than you.

We also have to proceed in a manner that resolves the problem without causing us economic disaster. I just read about a farmer who grows flowers and worries about losing his workers. He follows the rules now, but estimates that 60 percent of his workforce used fraudulant documents to get a job.

If his business loses that workforce, then the business will go South to where they pay lower wages and have a competitive edge over US businesses.

No easy solution, but we need to find one.

Here's a scintillating Website for those who reject broadstroke amnesty and want to preserve our American Sovereignty.

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com

Secure our Borders! Stop the Invasion!

Here is my stance on immigration. I'm sorry if I'm repeating what others have said, but I really don't have the time or patience to go back and read the epics preceding this post.

I am all for legal immigration. I say whoever wants to come to this country legally, let them come. However, we must know who you are, you have to pay taxes, and you must pay into the social security system.

Allow no convicted criminals or wanted criminals. Immunizations are required (specifically influenza and tuberculosis). Furthermore, English classes should be provided and requirements met.

If any of the preceding requirements aren't met, deport immediately. Re-apply in 5 years. Good luck.

The immigration watchdog has some chilling stuff. Safer in Iraq than in America with the illegals.

IMO the only reason our southern border is so fluid is because Corporate America wants it that way.

And we may find out that some really bad apple terrorists did and do cross our southern border.

I couldn't agree more, SH. OurSouthern Borders are a Cake Walk. for the Coyotes, Drug Smugglers and all illegal invaders.

We CAN Build the Wall. We CAN bring home 37,000 Troups (who've been protecting the South Korean border for 40 years) and put them to work for OUR Sovereign interests. What a novel idea!

The Senate has already sold us out.... Let's see what Congress has to say about the latest Shamnesty Bill headed their way.