BigGameHunt.net Hunting Forums

[cob]

Do yall think hunting is becoming a rich mans sport? I look at nonresident license prices in all states. I read about people on this site paying thousands of dollars to take guided hunts to Alaska and Africa and I sit here and wish and hope I'll be able to do that some day. What really got me thinking about this again is when I was at a sporting goods store looking at o/u shotguns (i want one real bad) and another guy walked up and started looking at them also. He couldn't decide whether to get the browning or the beretta so he got both, and he was going to get two brownings and the beretta but they didn't have two left. I just can't help but thinking the people setting the prices on hunting supplies and licenses see this and realize there's enough rich people to pay thier high prices and it just makes it harder and harder on people like me that work for their money. Now, I realize that some people save for a long time for a once in a lifetime chance to hunt in some exotic place and I realize that these people are quite a bit older than me and if I keep saving and being smart with money, I'll be able to walk in the store and buy two guns because I just can't decide. but, for now, its hard.

[expatriate]

Cob:
I had a boss one time that used to say, "Money can't buy happiness, but it sure provides the pain that I enjoy."

We definitely don't have a cheap sport, especially if you want to hunt out of state. In Montana you often see the other side of the coin -- monied hunters coming in and hunting the choice areas and getting the big bulls. That's one of the biggest reasons nonresident tags are limited and expensive in the West -- state response to local sportsmen who don't like having to compete with swarms of out of state hunters.

In some ways I wish you'd see more rich sportsmen out there -- particularly those in the sports, entertainment, and media business. It'd sure help our sport if celebrities were seen hunting instead of protesting. Nevertheless, I admit it ain't easy dreaming about gun behind the counter while some guy walks up and says "I'll take two."

I too dream of the big hunts, but I fear by the time I can afford one I'll be too old to remember which end of the gun goes forward.

[ This Message was edited by: expatriate on 2002-10-31 08:31 ]

[cob]

It would be a big help if more high profile people would hunt. I understand what you mean about not wanting all the out-of-staters crowding up your area. Colorado residents hate Texans because every weekend you can drive to colorado and see more texas license plates than colorado. As much as some people joke about it, to a certain extent, colorado really is the "Texans Playground" and its the texas money that keeps the ski slopes nice and the hunting programs financed, and all that kinda stuff.
"Rich hunters" really do help in many ways but it still doesn't do a thing for me when the indecisive guy says "i'll take em both"

[cowgal]

Hello Cob,
Quote:
Colorado residents hate Texans...


As a Coloradoan, I don't believe we generally hate Texans, yeah some will joke about it, but we all know our state's livelihood depends on tourism/hunting $$$. I live in an area (western Colorado) that caters to large numbers of tourists and of course many hunters. I have no problem with any of them (including Texans :smile:) as long as they respect our property and use common sense. Fortunately the large majority of all out-of-staters do.

I also find that the majority of folks that come and hunt in our state are regular working class folks like the rest of us, and most had to save for several years to come hunt.

I do hope that hunting in general does not become a rich man's sport. I would like to see equal opportunity for all, especially for the hard to obtain tags.

[expatriate]

The thing that worries me about hunting turning into a "rich man's sport" is the historic tendency for many in the elite to keep those of us in steerage off the top deck of the boat. Case in point is Ted Turner's vast Montana landholdings, which are notorious for not allowing hunters. If that wasn't enough, he made a deal awhile back with the state to trade 12,000 acres of his non-fishable land for over 6,000 acres of prime public access fishing area that belonged to the state. I believe the deal was eventually overturned, but you see my point.

I don't care how much money somebody has, but I certainly care when he feels that money grants him the right to be king. And if hunting becomes the "sport of kings," we might consider how that turned out in England.

[expatriate]

P.S. -- Cob, don't get me wrong about my thoughts about limiting out of state hunters. While I do support limits on out of state tags, I don't think there's any need to price gouge on them. Limit the number of out of state tags sold, but keep the price commensurate with resident tags. That'd give out of state hunters a couple hundred extra bucks in their pockets to spend on the economy during their hunts.

[cob]

cowgal,
I realize most of you don't actually hate texans in general, just the stupid ones but trust me some do and you probably know how easy it is to spot a texan. I guess its just that most of the time you see somebody doing something stupid the pickup and the bottom of the hill has texas plates.
expatriate, thats a good point about giving them a few hundred dollars extra to spend, i never thought of that. I for one know that if i was going to go elk hunting in colorado and i had to pay 170 instead of 470, colorado would end up getting all that money anyway. If i'm going to pay 470 for the tag i'm bringing texas bread and texas bologna and all i'll be buying is fuel if i have to.

[orp0741]

Cob,

Hunting becoming a rich mans sport, it is a rich mans sport if you don’t possess land. My daughter and I end up spending over $10,000 a year just on hunting. We don’t own land that can be hunted. Luckily some friends around the country that let us use there’s. I have a friend that sounds a lot like the man at the sporting goods store. He spends over $40,000 a year on hunting.

Having money must be a wonderful thing.

ORP

[moderator]

I read a Forest Service hunter demographics report a while back on the southern states of which I think they included AL, MS, MO, GA, SC, LA, AR.

Between 1990 and 2000 the number of total hunters decreased slightly, something around 1-2%. However the average spent on hunting per year doubled in the same time period. This would suggest the amount spent on hunting is rising rapidly.

The problem is that I didn't dig into the stats of the report. An "average" can be easily swayed by a few way out on the curve. Think of it like having 10 people that are all earning 10k a year (average income 10k). Then you throw in somebody who is earning 1000k a year (average shoots to 100k). An average income of 100k sounds pretty good, but the fact is that most everybody is still in the same situation w/ or w/o the millionaire.

So spending on hunting has definitely increased. However whether it is all hunters spending more or just a few spending a whole lot more is left to be seen. Might be a combo of both too.

If anybody has the report I'm referring too, I would like a copy to analyze in more detail.

[expatriate]

Moderator, in terms of statistics, this is a real minefield. As you mentioned, average income is probably not representative. So it might make more sense to look at median income -- half the hunters are above that line, half below.

It also depends on how you define "spent on hunting." ATV use has rapidly increased in recent years, and if people start counting $5,000 ATVs as "spent on hunting," it would drive numbers up. Same story for FRS radios, GPS, etc. It's possible to hunt without those things, but there have been a lot of gadgets come out that people are buying that might skew the data upward.

To level the field, a valid study would have to limit its scope to things that are 1) necessary for hunting; and 2) comparable to the past. Such things would include items like license fees, meat processing costs, land access/hunt club costs, etc.

We'd also need to consider the effects of increasing urbanization. Fewer people nowadays are able to simply grab some shells and walk out the back door toward the woods. Orp pointed this out, and in large part that would be reflected in access costs.

So I'd be real skeptical of studies that point to rising costs of hunting unless strict attention is paid to what costs are included.

[orp0741]

Expatriate,

In actually the highest cost is transportation and shipping for people like myself. I will not hunt on public land and don’t own land to hunt on. My daughter and I are going hunting in the next few weeks here is the approximate cost for this trip.

2 Round trip tickets to Louisiana $645.00.

4X4 Truck rental $700.00.

1 5-Day hunting license my daughter is under 16 so she doesn’t need one $75.00.

No hotel or land fees staying at a friends house and hunting his land, but I have to bring a gift and take the family out for dinner and drinks $300.00. (You can look at this as a land lease.)

Lets say we get 2 deer’s I quarter them and transport it back airfreight no processing fees I will butcher them at home $300.00.

Out of pocket expenses food, drinks, gas and exc. $250.00.

Total of $2,270.00 for a 7-day trip for two.

ORP

[bitmasher]

Lots of good thoughts in this thread...

cob: I don't think hunting is a rich man's sport if you do 3 things: hunt in state, have access to good public land, and stick to typical species (deer). Go outside these 3 items and things start getting expensive fast, especially if you have a taste for new guns and techno-toys (personally I don't, but have nothing against those that do). You also make an excellent point on the out of state license fees. I am patently against their being more than a 10% cost difference between in-state and out-of-state licenses (the 10% being used for differences in paperwork costs for an in-state vs out-of-state). That being said, I have been at DOW meetings where the anti-out-of-stater retoric gets to near xenophobic proportions.

Oh and regarding the CO-TX dislike. Your former governor had no problem winning big in CO the last election. If popular election is any judge it doesn't sound like CO distrusts Texasan that much. :wink:

expatriate: I believe there is a type of "uber-hunter" that spends big-bucks yearly on hunting. Orp's friend at 40k is certainly one of these (the median U.S. household income is ~42k or less, so Orp's friend is spending on just hunting alone what nearly half of all U.S. families live on in one year). Your example with Ted Turner is also a good one too. These uber-hunter's are relatively rare, but their buying patterns are influental on the rest of the crowd.

orp: thanks for laying out your LA costs, that shows where the big expenses are.

[expatriate]

Orp:
Ouch. Lousiana deer must be good eating. I see your point. I was thinking in terms of local hunting, but I can see how expensive it'd get if you go out of state.

I used to work with a guy from Louisiana who constantly bragged about duck hunts down there. Don't know if you're into ducks or not, but given the price of the trip I think I'd be tempted to take a shotgun with me in case I got the deer early. According to Louisiana, all you need as a non-resident is a hunting license, which you'll have anyway, a $25 LA duck license, and a $15 federal duck stamp.

Good luck with the trip.

[maineguide]

cob, I think that hunting has got out of hand on prices for firearms and ammo.

But people don't relize why the price of a guided hunt is so pricey. The guide or outfitter spends hours and months of scouting putting up tree stands, or building blinds for his sports so they can have a good hunt.
Then after the sport bags game the guide or outfitter takes care of the game, by skinning and processing it.

This is why it cost so to go and have a great time in the out of doors.

[ This Message was edited by: maineguide on 2002-11-03 17:46 ]

[12ga. mag.]

Is the wealthy hunter really enjoying himself when he pays two months of my salery to go hunting for a week?HUMMM I wonder. I can go hunting with one of my sons or grand sons for one day and i bet we enjoy the day more than they enjoy the whole week,even if we come home empty handed.
it's just never been my style to hire a guide and have him drive me to a stand, point out the animal, load my gun and tell me when to shoot. Then spend the next two hours telling me what a great hunter that I am while he just made 3 grand off of a fool.
local hunters have to do all they can to keep the land owners happy and don't distroy anything while hunting. Where i live most of the farms are now owned by fifth avenue farmers and about the only way to hunt is to own some land next to them.Just MHO.

[ This Message was edited by: 12ga. mag. on 2002-11-05 14:01 ]