BigGameHunt.net Hunting Forums

[rost495]

What you read is that the closest deer I've shot is 3 yards with a bow. And the longest shot is 856 yards. One shot kills both. So where does your supposed issue come from?

[Captain_Obvious]

My issue is that hunting is NOT supposed to be playing sniper with animals. If you want to do that, go shoot targets, not animals.

[rost495]

So we are back at square on. You say hunt. What does that mean. Does it include killing? No , but sometimes it does. Do I kill just because I can? No and I hope no one else does. Yet you want to impose your limit of XYZ yards on me because it fits your thoughts.

So why can't I impose this to you? There is not challenge to a 100 yard rifle shot, and you call that hunting? Why not accept the challenge to dump the rifle and pick up a bow? After all skill isn't a rifle shot at 100 yards, its being able to get within 15 yards or less and watch that cedar shaft from the recurve fly to the target.

Sorry, I just can't handle someone out there telling someone they can or can't do this or that. Just because they don't agree with it.

Am I way off the mark?(whats the history behind that statement :D )

[Captain_Obvious]

If you want a challenge, stay in competitive shooting. Because every young idiot these days thinks they can make super-long shots, landowners are getting sick of cleaning up lost deer, and don't even say its not a problem because its even a problem in this state.

[Captain_Obvious]

Oh and I hate to tell you, but I also bowhunt.

[rost495]

Sure its a problem. The last deer I lost was shot at give or take 50 yards. Thats the first deer I have lost in many years. Maybe close to 20. I didn't like it. Especially after following for 4.5 hours. I still don't like it. But sometimes stuff happens. Strange that I've never lost one that I've shot at past 300 yards. Simply because I'm just too picky on those shots and its either 150% that I'll kill or I'll pass it up.

And I'll make you the wager that more deer are lost by normal slobs than any others. Not the long rangers. Not even the novice ones.

Here are the facts. For one, you stated that a bunch just totally missed your targets. Same way in my hunter ed classes. Most folks that try at 300 or beyond have no clue and usually shoot way over a deer. No harm no foul. Those that continue to want to learn realize it takes more practice and by the time the find out how hard it is initially they limit their shots till they become proficient. I've found more dead deer on leases we hunt on where the guys shoot and say they must have missed because it didn't fall over. Go back and look and the deer is 50-100 yards away. To top all that off most folks shoot badly enough at 100-200 yards to just make bad hits, not miss totally.

I'd wager you that simple odds will tell you most deer that are wounded and or lost are shot at 200 or under. Thats the distance most deer are attempted and it goes with the territory that the most mistakes will be made there also.

BTW since you bowhunt also( and there is no reason to hate to tell me that), whats the legit range there? I actually have a big hangup in bowhunting in TX here since our deer are small and duck so bad normally. At 20 yards and beyond they can so easily be out of the way. I refuse to shoot past 15 yards anymore for that reason. Its something that I actually have NO control over and cannot condone longer shots. Might work on Elk or Muleys but won't work here. Learned this over a long time period. And being that my recurve is slower than my compound, its even more critical. Heck you learn when you shoot at a deer and it turns so fast that you hit it on the opposite side. Once you have no control, ya gotta stop.

Gotta go hit the hay for the evening. Have a great evening, Jeff

[Captain_Obvious]

Well out here, one of the best hunting ranches around was just closed to all hunters, because a man saw what he thought was a deer atop a ridge some 450 yards away. He shot, and it lumbered away. Later, it turned out to be one of the rancher's calves.

Even in other parts of the country, this is a big problem. Some owners of private game ranches require all hunters to qualify their marksmanship before they can hunt. Other landowners are saying no entirely.

I don't have a problem with a hunter shooting a game animal out to 400 yards. Beyond that, to me, is unethical. In my opinion, before a hunter even thinks about taking a shot like that, their groups, from natural hunting positions need to be 1.5 inches or smaller at 100 yards, and still under 3 inches at 200 yards.

Every bolt action rifle I own can and has shot groups of 1 inch or under at 100 yards. One rifle, a Remington 700 ADL synthetic chambered in 7mm Remington Magnum, produced two three-shot groups of 1-3/4 inches at 200 yards from a benchrest. I have lot of confidence in that rifle. In hunting, its never even made a 200 yard shot. I'd shoot a large buck or a big elk at 400 yards IF I felt comfortable with the hold. But I wouldn't ever shoot farther, because that just isn't ethical.

[Captain_Obvious]

30 or 40 yards is usually a sensible range for a bow, although a 50 or 60 yard shot can happen. For a deer, a good quality broadhead should still penetrate the heart or lungs, but if I ever bowhunt elk, I'm staying under 30 yards.

[shatodavis]

I've seen antelope shot at some impressive distances. But, they are light, thin skinned animals. They don't take a lot to kill. I've personally taken a elk at between 350 to 400 yards. I didn't have a range finder so everythings a guess. Ballistically the bullet dropped enough to be 375 yards. Thats if my hold was perfect. We all know, in the hunting woods no hold is perfect. I've seen people shoot deer at 80 yards with a bow. I once saw a squirrel shot out of a 50 foot tall tree from approximately a 1/4 mile away (400 yards). With a snap, off hand 22 lr shot.

Now that all being said. Is it ethical? Is it smart? I don't have the answers. I shot the elk at that long a range because I felt good about the shot. Could I make it again? I think so. Can I shoot a bow accurately at 80 yards? NO. Can I make that shot with the 22. Hell NO. Anyone, who would be truthful would tell you that taking shots at game beyond 300 yards is a 50/50 proposition. You'll miss as many as you make.

Its true that the chance are greater that you may wound an animal at longer distances. , I would take my chances with a person who has practiced at long range, over someone who shoots once a year just prior to season at a close range.

Now 800, 1000, 1500 yard shots are way out of my league. I don't even pretend to be able to shoot accurately at those distances. There are those who can, I'm just not one of them. I will say this, Its hard to imagine a cartridge having enough kinetic energy at those ranges to kill much. Of course a 50 BMG is whole other story, but we don't hunt with a 50.

[Tankgunner]

Jeff,

Since there are less than 1500 HM in Highpower and less than 400 HM in Long-range Highpower you should be well known in the competitive circuits. Why not post your real name, and the event where you beat G. David and let your critics look up your credentials?

Just a thought.

Lee Sellers

[NONYA]

3/4 of a hunt is getting close enough to a free ranging animal to make an ethical/clean shot,long range target shooting is a blast but why mix the two?If you dont have the skills to make a stalk stay on the range and out of the field,any halfass shot with a .50 bmg and a bipod can make a 1200 yrd shot and that is NOT hunting!My 7mm rem mag will shoot great groups at distances that I do not consider ethical,the only time I would consider a shot at a distance in the 5-600 yard range would be a situation where i was trying to finish a wounded animal and because I dont shoot at a big game animal unless i feel confident that Im gonna drop it on the first shot I dont have that problem.When it comes to gophers/coyotes/fox/badger/ect.ect. no range is out of question as long as I feel there is no risk of an unsafe backstop.I dont know how many times i have come across antelope with legs/noses/asses blown off while out hunting and that is a direct result of people taking running shots usually in a herd scenario,anytime you are dealing with a herd of game animals a running shot is nat an ethical choice and is the #1 reason for game animals wounded or accidently killed and left in the field to rot.Keep the hunt in hunting and remember we are out there to challenge ourselves and our hunting skills dont reduce it to a 1200 yard turkey shoot with a benchrest rifle with a bull barrel and a 5200 fps cartridge.There are plenty of prarie dogs/gophers out there to satsfy our longrange bloodlust!!!

[Don Fischer]

I ran into one of these guy's that really thought he was hot stuff year's ago. He was shooting a 30-338 and claimed he could hit our blacktail deer at one mile. I made a bet with him that we could put up a 50 gal drum at one mile and he could shoot as long as he wanted, $1 per shot with a min of 20 shot's. He took rhe bet and never showed up. Saw him the next day and he claimed his kid needed to take the rifle home with him.

Now this guy was talking 1000 to 1500 yd prairie dog's. Yes indeed, Varmit Hunter Assoc. has a 1500 yd club. I heard rumor's of a 2000 yd shot also. But this guy, by his own admission has never shot at one. Does claim 1200 yd woodchuck's tho and I think it was 1 1/2" and 2" 200 yd group's with a 22. 22 what? Centerfire, I'll give you the benifit of the doubt.

I know that there are people that shoot at big game at those range's and I find it absolutely apalling. It's easy to claim a clean miss on a wounded deer at those range's. There is absolutely nothing ethical about that nonsence, even for those that can do it now and again.

[fuzzybear]

Just for the heck of it I ran these figures through my ballistics program.

For the benefit of the doubt

120gr 25 caliber bullet with a BC of .800 (a very long one)

................................velocity...................energy.....................drop

muzzle..................3600 fps.............3454 fpe...............+1.5 inches
1000 yds..............2367 fps.............1493 fpe.................0
2000 yds..............1461 fps...............569 fpe............... -662.85 inches


I didn't even try to calculate the windage.

[JTapia]

fuzzybear wrote:
2000 yds..............1461 fps...............569 fpe............... -662.85 inches


Wow, thats over 55 feet. Helluva hold over for that !!!

[Tankgunner]

I'm curious as to what twist rate would be necessary to stabilize such a bullet. Faster than anything that is found on field type rifles to be sure!

Lee