BigGameHunt.net Hunting Forums

[expatriate]

Ok, buck, I'm seeing the association to the American Humane Association. Even Allard admits that he was voted their "Legislator of the Year."

But why did he win that recognition? In the words of the AHA, it was because because of 1) trying to eliminate interstate trafficking in poultry for poultry conflict; 2) lobbying for pet owners to tag their pets, and 3) pushing to inform deploying military members of pet care measures available to them.

Maybe I'm thick, but I'm still not seeing the smoking gun. Allard didn't try to end cockfighting (his term); he simply used the interstate commerce clause to prevent sending chickens across state lines for the purpose. Oklahoma can keep throwing as many chickens in the ring as they want; they just can't import them. As someone that's raised chickens, I can tell you that it's not that tough, nor are they so precious a commodity that they can't be produced locally. The only impact is that it prevents the three states from having a national championship.

So if there's other issues where Allard supported animal rights in a way that affected hunters, I'd like to know. I don't vote in Colorado and the campaign is basically over, but I'm curious nevertheless. I've never seen anyone argue a disconnect between the NRA and animal rights.

[bucknaked40]

Expatriate if you have the same agenda as the AR's then the PAC money is just butter on your bread? Again I ask you people ever hear of COVERT action? And also you don't have to use animals as living targets, they make bulls eyes and skeet, these are not my saying or writtings but its the one that the AR's are going to use against you! Its hard to make gravey with them skeets or dressing. You must also realize that in the concrete forrests (cities) they only hunt each other with drive bys. In this world they think BAMBI talks and the only ducks they know is DONALD, DAFFY, and YACKI DOODLE. Now do you all have a clue as to where I'm coming from. You see we have been battling these people since 1978 ever since the animal rights act was passed, we know them well! Thanks again BUCK

[bucknaked40]

I used to be a die hard REPUBLICAN, I was a member of Ronald Regans task force, gave money to the party. All I want to tell you is that you can pin a trunk on a liberal donkey and call him a elephant but when you walk behind him and see the broom tail you know he is still a jackass! Ever hear of Mr Jeffers, what did he do?

[expatriate]

Buck:
I'm still a Republican and know all about donkeys that like to parade as elephants. I also used to live right down the road from PETA headquarters and know more than I care to about the AR agenda.

I understand what you're saying about covert action. Yet to my knowledge the federal registry is an overt document, and changes to it must be overt as well. Thus, I worry about voting records and public statements, not covert links to organizations. That's why I'm asking if you have any record of legislative action or public statement where Allard indicated intent to initiate or support legislative action that would adversely impact hunters.

[moderator]

The move to ban cockfighting started long long before any of us here were even alive, let alone before the modern animal rights movement was formed. Many states outlawed it even before your Granddad fought in WWI, Buck.

http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=646

I fail to see how the ban on cockfighting in Oklahoma (if it passes) will necessarily lead to the elimination of hunting rights.

[ This Message was edited by: moderator on 2002-11-05 16:05 ]

[powderburn]

Do you people read these post in their entirety? What Buck is trying to tell you that regardless of whether it is the rooster fighters today or the duck hunters, big game hunters, or fishermen tomorrow, we must all come together to stop the HSUS and PETA from taking any of our rights. Rooster fighter are Americans just like everyone else and they deserve the right to pursue their happiness the same as you and I. Buck is a veteran and deserves our support whether it is on the front lines or in the polling booths. Never fear Buck I see where you are coming from and I am in your corner. Powder

[moderator]

Now hold on. This board even on the best of days, is not a hang out for animal rights activists. To this much we can agree.

The opinion on both sides is clear.

Some believe that the ban on cockfighting in Oklahoma will simply be another victory in a final march to eliminate hunting and agriculture as we know it.

Others believe that cockfighting has absolutely nothing to do with hunting regardless of whether the ban is being pushed by animal rights activists or not.

Your points have been made, the rhetoric is starting to get pretty strong in this thread. I ask that both sides only posts facts from here on out, your opinions are clear.

[expatriate]

Yes, I read the posts. What I was reading was a lot of rhetoric about a Senator's links to an organization, but nothing about his actions. AR money doesn't change the law, but actions do. On the other side of the coin, I've seen legislators imply NRA indorsement, yet their actions suggest a different agenda. Implying guilt by association without checking the record is simply mudslinging.

Believe me, I'm all for stopping AR attacks on hunting. However, I'm having a hard time equating an elk hunt with throwing two chickens (or dogs) in a ring and betting on which one survives. I'm sorry if you disagree, but that's where I stand personally.

I've also been on active duty with the Armed Forces for almost 14 years now, and I disagree with waving the flag and using Buck's veteran status to attempt to rally support for cockfighting. This is my 56th post on this board and the first time I've mentioned my employer. That's because we're not a 3rd world dictatorship; in our country the military is neutral, and its members shouldn't imply military indorsement of political viewpoints. I've never claimed any of my posts were anything other than my own personal views. As much as I respect Buck's service, I take umbrage with those who state we should support his personal views on a nonmilitary social issue simply because of his military service.

I agree with Moderator -- let's discuss facts, not rhetoric.

[ This Message was edited by: expatriate on 2002-11-05 17:11 ]

[bucknaked40]

Animal-Rights Zealots Want Your Children
We’ve told you about PETA’s penchant for accosting kids outside their schools, pushing to get their propaganda embraced in the classroom, and claiming that parents who feed their young’uns meat are child-abusers. And it’s no secret that the PETA-funded front group called PCRM (the “Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine”) is responsible for most of the vegetarian agitating in school lunch programs.

Now activists are targeting kids who visit the circus on school field trips. The following exchange, which occurred last week in a Yahoo animal-rights discussion group, is typical of the tactics being used to propagandize American children:


Neil wrote:

“Although I have not made any of the school performances, I would imagine it would be more difficult to distribute material than at normal public shows. The teachers must be cautious about what their students are receiving, and even more worried about how the student's parents would react.”


Yes, it is very difficult and the cops make it even more difficult. However, they can't stop us from having big banners and maybe megaphones. One way or another we should try to get the message to kids.

Neil wrote:

“Maybe next year, when Ringling comes to Hartford, we could make sure we ask each teacher or bus driver from which school the students came.”


You don't have to ask. Usually the name of the school is right on the bus. Sometimes students wear labels too. We just need an extra activist with a pen and a notebook.

Barbara
In addition, The Fund For Animals is sponsoring a “humane essay contest,” which asks kids in grades 2 through 12 to write a convincing argument for why circuses should be banned. And if you’re really motivated to take the animal rights crusade into the classroom, the Humane Society of the United States has sunk part of its $100 million nest egg into a partnership with Regis University in Colorado. The result: a graduate certificate program in “Humane and Environmental Studies,” intended for activists who want a Masters Degree in nonprofit management.

Source: http://www.consumerfreedom.com


[ This Message was edited by: bucknaked40 on 2002-11-05 19:40 ]

[bucknaked40]

http://www.furcommission.com/debate/words2.htm HSUS and the Making of a Conflict Industrialist FCUSA commentary on the career of J.P. Goodwin, Aug. 12, 2001.

Recommended reading:

Report on HSUS by the Capital Research Center.



[ This Message was edited by: bucknaked40 on 2002-11-05 19:48 ]

[ This Message was edited by: bucknaked40 on 2002-11-05 19:49 ]

[expatriate]

Buck:
I agree with you on the threat posed by groups of this type. They're clearly nuts and out to get us. We need to stop them, and thankfully word is starting to get out on how extreme these people are.

However, I would argue the possibility that an organization like HSUS that's politically active may sometimes have to choose between two candidates that may not be on board with them. In that case, their indorsement may go to what they consider the lesser of two evils.

Thus my argument for checking Allard's record. The fact that he took the money doesn't necessarily mean he buys into their agenda. He may see them as buying into his, and there's a difference.

In a sense, this would be like Sinn Fein having PAC money to hand out to a pair of Boston congressional candidates. Of the two, one is Catholic and one is Protestant. Thus, Sinn Fein may send its money to the former. Does that mean the former indorses IRA bombings? Not necessarily.

The question is how much of the agenda Allard supports. That shows up in the voting record and public statements.

Your actions on this issue highlight an important point: we need to make sure the people around us are aware of extremism lurking within seemingly benign organizations. I guarantee you that Joe Citizen equates HSUS with animal shelters, not militant animal rights activism. Thus, Allard could take the money and have it look like he's a benevolent supporter of orphaned pets. If Colorado voters had made a stink about HSUS' agenda, he may well have returned the money.

[ This Message was edited by: expatriate on 2002-11-05 20:27 ]

[bucknaked40]

Florida Pigs And Their Constitutional Protection......



No. 10: Animal Cruelty Amendment: Limiting Cruel and Inhumane Confinement of Pigs During Pregnancy
%
Report YES NO
Total 2,296,773 1,882,070
Percent 82.9% 55.0% 45.0%


http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/

[bitmasher]

Buck,

Allard is clearly against cockfighting, thus the HSUS funding and the endorsements.

http://www.durangoherald.com/a.....ws4972.htm

However this does not carry over into hunting. This is a google.com cache article with an endorsement from Field and Stream:

http://216.239.53.100/search?q.....n&ie=UTF-8

Also Allard supported opening of hunting in the Great Sand Dunes (it is point 5 on the linked page):

http://allard.senate.gov/features/sanddunes/

With regards to not responding to the Sportsman's Alliance or the above animal alliance you linked to, all I can say is that none of his opponents responded either, making it a moot point in my eyes.

The case is clear to me. Allard supports hunting and is endorsed by hunting interests. However he has strong opposition to cockfighting. Cockfighting as an issue is irrelevant to me and considering that I supported his other non-animal related positions; I voted for him.

I do want to thank you for posting the info about HSUS funding of Allard. I was certainly suprised as my posts may have suggested yesterday. You have clearly spent a good deal of time researching this matter, and your information was helpful in making an informed decision.

[bucknaked40]

Even More AR Criminal Activity?
........Yes, it is very difficult and the cops make it even more difficult......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Animal-Rights Zealots Want Your Children
We’ve told you about PETA’s penchant for accosting kids outside their schools, pushing to get their propaganda embraced in the classroom, and claiming that parents who feed their young’uns meat are child-abusers. And it’s no secret that the PETA-funded front group called PCRM (the “Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine”) is responsible for most of the vegetarian agitating in school lunch programs.

Now activists are targeting kids who visit the circus on school field trips. The following exchange, which occurred last week in a Yahoo animal-rights discussion group, is typical of the tactics being used to propagandize American children:


Neil wrote:

“Although I have not made any of the school performances, I would imagine it would be more difficult to distribute material than at normal public shows. The teachers must be cautious about what their students are receiving, and even more worried about how the student's parents would react.”


Yes, it is very difficult and the cops make it even more difficult. However, they can't stop us from having big banners and maybe megaphones. One way or another we should try to get the message to kids.

Neil wrote:

“Maybe next year, when Ringling comes to Hartford, we could make sure we ask each teacher or bus driver from which school the students came.”


You don't have to ask. Usually the name of the school is right on the bus. Sometimes students wear labels too. We just need an extra activist with a pen and a notebook.

Barbara
In addition, The Fund For Animals is sponsoring a “humane essay contest,” which asks kids in grades 2 through 12 to write a convincing argument for why circuses should be banned. And if you’re really motivated to take the animal rights crusade into the classroom, the Humane Society of the United States has sunk part of its $100 million nest egg into a partnership with Regis University in Colorado. The result: a graduate certificate program in “Humane and Environmental Studies,” intended for activists who want a Masters Degree in nonprofit management.

Source: http://www.consumerfreedom.com

[bucknaked40]

That was my point all along I want an Informed Electorate. That way you can keep your eyes on them and not be hood winked. You ever think that the reason no one from Colo responded to the questionair is because they are all AR's.