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[cowgal]

I was not the biggest fan of George W. Bush, however the following did make me pause and compare to our current president. This appears to have been written a couple months ago, I'm sure there's a whole lot more we could add to this list!


If George W. Bush had been the first President to need a teleprompter
installed to be able to get through a press conference, would you have
laughed and said this is more proof of how inept he is on his own and is
really controlled by smarter men behind the scenes?

If George W. Bush had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to take
Laura Bush to a play in NYC, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had reduced your retirement plan's holdings of GM
stock by 90% and given the unions a majority stake in GM, would you have
approved?

If George W. Bush had made a joke at the expense of the Special
Olympics, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given Gordon Brown a set of inexpensive and
incorrectly formatted DVDs, when Gordon Brown had given him a thoughtful
and historically significant gift, would you have approved?

If George W. Bush had given the Queen of England an iPod containing
videos of his speeches, would you have thought this embarrassingly
narcissistic and tacky?

If George W. Bush had bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia, would you have
approved?

If George W. Bush had visited Austria and made reference to the
non-existent "Austrian language," would you have brushed it off as a
minor slip?

If George W. Bush had filled his cabinet and circle of advisers with
people who cannot seem to keep current in their income taxes, would you
have approved?

If George W. Bush had been so Spanish illiterate as to refer to "Cinco
de Cuatro" in front of the Mexican ambassador when it was the 5th of May
(Cinco de Mayo), and continued to flub it when he tried again, would you
have winced in embarrassment?

If George W. Bush had mis-spelled the word "advice" would you have
hammered him for it for years like Dan Quayle and potatoe as proof of
what a dunce he is?

If George W. Bush had burned 9,000 gallons of jet fuel to go plant a
single tree on Earth Day, would you have concluded he's a hypocrite?

If George W. Bush's administration had okayed Air Force One flying low
over millions of people followed by a jet fighter in downtown Manhattan
causing widespread panic, would you have wondered whether they actually
get what happened on 9-11?

If George W. Bush had failed to send relief aid to flood victims
throughout the Midwest with more people killed or made homeless than in
New Orleans, would you want it made into a major ongoing political issue
with claims of racism and incompetence?

If George W. Bush had ordered the firing of the CEO of a major
corporation, even though he had no constitutional authority to do so,
would you have approved?

If George W Bush had proposed to double the national debt, which had
taken more than two centuries to accumulate, in one year, would you have
approved?

If George W. Bush had then proposed to double the debt again within 10
years, would you have approved?

So, tell me again, what is it about Obama that makes him so brilliant
and impressive? Can't think of anything? Don't worry. He's done all this
in just a few months -- so you'll have three years to come up with an answer.

[tonyoneword1]

Hey cowgirl good post. I am a Bush fan . I didnt agree with every choice he has made but as a union member dont choice follow what my union leaders tell me . If you read the facts you will find that until the dems took over congress in 2006 unemployement was at a low. That the policies that were created by Bill Clinton gave power to groups like acorn . If this country does not open its eyes it will not exist in 5 years from now . Thev president we have now could not lead a boyscout troop. No disrespect to the boy scouts. If you remember last year before the elections when Obama was behind in the polls ,he hada lunch date with Bill Clinton . Right after that he moved his speeches to a more moderate appeal to the public . This man has done nothing but lie and the US dollar is falling like a rock. By the middle of this winter you will see fuel prices climb again and the dollar will continue to weaken as the feds try to prop up the stock market . In 3 monthes Obamas plans have raised the national defecit beyond anything close to George Bush. Cowgirl people can continue to bash bush but if they still have an Obama bumper sticker on their cars should just put a sign that says Im stupid instead. :cool: This man is by far the worst leader this country has ever seen and God willing this nation will survive. :thumbsup1:

[WesternHunter]

I would not excuse that behavior for any President. Obama is really good at diffusing the situation when he messes up, getting everyone to look the other way or to approve of what he is flat out doing wrong. For that I say shame on him. To the American people an the mainsteam media who accept it or look the other way I say "YOU are the idiots!!!"

Of course I was never a huge fan of George W Bush either. Sure he did do a few things for gun owners that I appreciated, but overall a a whole I didn't think he was that great of a president. I voted for him because he was the lesser of the two evils. I sure cringed with embarrasment everytime I saw him go on camera and attempt to say something remotely intelligent. With the exception of his damn New World Order idea I will say that his father (George Sr) was a pretty good leader and a good president.

We need another president like Teddy Roosevelt :yes:

[Makwa]

As a neighbour watching things unfold I have to say these are interesting times.....I didn't say good, just interesting. I did not have a lot of use for GW but then in recent decades I have not seen a politician on either side of the 49th that I have a lot of use for. There is certainly nothing leading any of the political parties in Canada that is worth bragging about.

The one thing I wanted to mention here that I have found interesting is that while most hunters and shooters on the internet claim to dislike Obama and believe he is less than forthright................that does not seem to be the case with most of the actual in the flesh US hunters I have been guiding the last few seasons during the campaign and these past few months of his Presidency. Most have been pro-Obama or at worst cautiously optimistic about his Presidency.

Just an observation.

[WesternHunter]

Makwa wrote: As a neighbour watching things unfold I have to say these are interesting times.....I didn't say good, just interesting. I did not have a lot of use for GW but then in recent decades I have not seen a politician on either side of the 49th that I have a lot of use for. There is certainly nothing leading any of the political parties in Canada that is worth bragging about.

The one thing I wanted to mention here that I have found interesting is that while most hunters and shooters on the internet claim to dislike Obama and believe he is less than forthright................that does not seem to be the case with most of the actual in the flesh US hunters I have been guiding the last few seasons during the campaign and these past few months of his Presidency. Most have been pro-Obama or at worst cautiously optimistic about his Presidency.

Just an observation.

That's because a great many hunter simply do not value their rights and privileges. I know some hunters who are not much into recreational shooting sports. They are perfectly happy to throw AR-15 and AK-47 owners under the bus while falsely living in the belief that their own fine double shotguns or single shot hunting rifles will always be safe from the liberals. They don't understand that an attack on one type of gun ownership right is and attack on ALL guns and gun owners. Most of the hunters I know personally do understand this concept, but sadly a lot of hunters out there don't care enough about the issue.

Hunters and gun owners siding with, liking, and voting for Obama is the equivelent of meat eater and fur wearers who are for PETA. None of it makes any logical sense.

[Makwa]

Well WH those are things I am well aware of as it is the same everywhere, hence why only a small fraction of hunters and shooters belong to anything that actually fights the good fight.

It was just an observation I thought I would pass on......because I get the impression from most of the internet banter I see, that the guys yacking on the internet seem to think the overwhelming majority of hunters and shooters are anti-Obama. This sure does not seem to be the case from what I am seeing.

What you have brought up in your last post is the reason that as firearms owners and hunters............the majority of what we have enjoyed will come to an end with the passing of the baby boomers.

[tonyoneword1]

Makwa I am curious if most of your clients are union guysor from a liberal state . I live in a very liberal state but except for a few union guys even the Dems are against Obama ... now . [I am from NJ] The point I am making is if your clientele is from the northeast part of the country that could explain why they are in such support of Obama .

[Makwa]

tonyoneword1.........an interesting question. In the last year and a half I have guided hunters from California, Montana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, North Carolina, Florida, Pennsylvania and Arkansas.

I thought about their backgrounds with respect to education level and occupation.......they have included guys who didn't finish high school to some who have spent way too much time in school and have a number of degrees.
Welders and metal fabricators, retired school teachers, police officers, fire fighters, surgeons and farmers.

Age class has been typical for guided hunts and wilderness lodge angling packages...........a few young ones where Grandpa or Dad is footing the bill, a few in their 70's and even early 80's, but the vast majority are boomers.

Interestingly enough the most rabid anti-Obama chap was a school teacher, which sort of went against what my experience with school teachers over the years would have suggested. The strongest pro-Obama guy I can remember was a doctor.................and considering how much mud Americans like to sling at us in Canada about our medical system, I also found that to be a bit surprising.

Anyways, I just thought I would throw out my observations for you folks to ponder.

As Western Hunter was quick to point out, and I agree with him, most hunters do not value their rights and privileges and it does not bode well for the future. Right now the baby boomer age group is the core client base for the global outfitting industry, the firearms manufacturers and the memberships of conservation based pro-hunting organizations.................yet only about 5 % of this group on a good day, belongs to the core pro-hunting and firearms organizations in the country or area they live in.

Complacency is high because we all grew up with what we have and didn't fight any of the big battles to get it..............and I am speaking of the hunting privileges, abundant wildlife, buying power, the freedom to travel and the means to do it. And this complacency is in the age group that has about 15 years of clout left before attrition due to age, illness and death brings it to an end.

Globally hunter and shooting sports recruitment is simply not keeping up with the attrition rate. The mind set of those coming along behind us is, on average, not that of the rabid hunter and firearms owner. Mostly they are fair weather hunters and shooters and when things get too tough they will simply drop it. To a great degree this has been the case with boomers as well........just look at the impact that the banning of lead shot had on waterfowl hunting.

Our entire system which has forced the urbanization of our populations has made things increasingly difficult for many people to continue to hunt and shoot. We are a minority group and the rest of society and their views is taking its toll in the minds of our children and grandchildren.

Sure there is always a few of us that can stand up and boast that this is not the case in the rinky dink little rural town we live in, or that I got my grandkids into shooting and hunting............but that is not the overall trend.

The fact that Obama did get elected and is so widely accepted is a pretty good symbol of where things are really at.

And on that negative note.......................it is time to go and cut some firewood and check beaver traps. :)

[WesternHunter]

It's all very true. I live in a neighborhood that even the causual observer with untrained eye can see is a neighborhood with lots of hunters. Take a walk around on any given day and you will see many vehicles in the area with stickers indicating memebership with Ducks Unlimited, Rocky Mnt Elk Fndsn, NRA, etc. Take a glance inside an open garage and you will see antlers, and mounts, decoys, waders, etc. You see lot's of bird dogs too - Labs, Chessys, various pointers, etc.

One Saturday afternoon I was giving both vehicles a tune-up when the mail man was delivering and he walked up and handed me my American Rifleman magazine. He commented that in 30 years of delivering he's never had a route with such a high concentration of NRA members in one area as this one. I was thrilled, but not surprised based on what my observation has been.

Come this past election day and I am the only one with a Ron Paul sign on my lawn. Most homes in the area had Obama signs out on their laws. WTF!!! I need to start getting together with some of these folks and start talking some sence into them :](*,) :](*,) :](*,) :](*,)

[cowgal]

Maybe it is due to the rural community I live in, but I don't find most of Makwa's statements in regards to support for Obama, lack of interest in hunting/shooting sports, lack of support for hunting/shooting organizations, etc., to be true. In fact the majority of outfitters, hunters and shooters that I know do not support the liberal platform at all, meaning most are conservative - in fact many are very conservative, not just middle of the road.

Also if you look at the current polls, support for Obama & his liberal ideas is slipping quickly. I personally believe that people are finally figuring out that he's all talk and taking this country down a very costly road.

Makwa, this question has been asked before on this forum, and since you brought it up - what do you think of Canada's health care system? Do you feel you receive good medical care at all times? Is it too costly, either in taxes and/or what you pay for out of pocket? Is there a waiting list for certain procedures? Do you feel the American's perception of Canadian health care is incorrect? We can start a new thread if you wish, since I realize this is a bit off topic for this thread.

[Makwa]

Cowgal..........I suspect it is the rural community you live in............because I could easily say that of the community I live in, except that it does not accurately reflect the way things are in the big urban centres, which have over 80% of the population base. Even in Canada the rural communities in general and the western provinces tend to be very much conservative...........but in the end it always comes down to the big urban centres in Ontario and Quebec dictating what will be and they have leaned towards the liberal end of things for decades.

States like Colorado and Wyoming are but a mere drop in the bucket with US politics, just as the prairie provinces are up here. WE don't like it, but there is little that can be done about it. (Other than we know they are better places to live in..... :wink: )

As for the health care issues. No I do not want to get involved in a discussion about it. I have seen way too many people getting carried away on this topic in the media and on the internet over the last few months and it usually just turns into a Canada bashing session..................which just ends up pissing me off.

In the end it matters little what we have in place in Canada. What will matter to you is what kind of a health system your government designs and puts in place. There is nothing that I have seen so far that suggests they are going to mirror what we have in Canada, which by the way, varies a fair amount from province to province. And while there are some similarities across the board It is not completely static across the entire country with regards to basic health coverage, fees, wait times and prescription drug coverage.

[cowgal]

In general rural communities appreciate their independence and do not want government interfering in their lives. Also, the rural areas are much more self-sufficient, meaning we take care of our own. I know its probably not typical for all rural communities across the country, however we've had a public health care system in place here for as long as I can remember (at least 25-30 years). Anyone can walk into this clinic and receive medical care, payment is based on your income level. Its a very nice clinic and staffed with both paid employees and volunteers. The overhead is paid for by the county, so obviously tax $$ are involved. They are held accountable and keep a streamlined efficient budget. I do NOT believe the federal government can do a better job.

Makwa, I did not ask about your health care system to bash it, I'm truly interested in what citizens of Canada have to say vs what politicians are feeding us. I find the citizen's experience to be more believable. I have several friends that live in Canada, so I've already heard their comments. Some good, some not.

I do completely agree that the larger population bases in cities decide the fate of the whole country. I also blame the media for coddling Obama and portraying him as some sort of saviour that will fix everything! Never mind the cost, or how many generations it will take to pay that exorbitant debt off. Right now I believe the tide is turning and people are finally figuring out that Obama is all talk & the cost is too great. Even the media and the cities will eventually figure it out. They have to, this cannot go on indefinitely. We have a couple elections (state level) coming up this fall and more in 2010, that will show the country what they really think of the liberal agenda that is being shoved down our throats.

[Makwa]

Cowgal.........I did not mean to infer that YOU specifically were going to start bashing Canada.......just that this topic is a hot one south of the 49th and it rarely stays civil from what I have seen so far. So as long as this does not digress with others getting all hot under the collar about things I will talk to you about it, and if you want to move this elsewhere feel free.

I agree that federal governments simply can't get anything right on their own......yours or ours. Our health system is actually run by the provinces with the federal government in the back benches. Things do vary widely and the reports you get on how good it is will depend on where one lives.

I have lived for extended periods in three different provinces, with short stints in one more and in two northern territories. I will stick to the three provinces I have years of experience with, but can comment a bit on other provinces as I have of course got friends and relatives elsewhere.

I have lived for extended periods in British Columbia, Alberta and Manitoba. By far the health care coverage, waiting times and prescription coverage is best in Manitoba, followed by Alberta and then BC. Wait times rise quite a bit in the huge urban centers and really I guess that is to be expected. Another factor is the rapid growth in some provinces over the last decade and the systems struggling to keep up with the growth. Alberta has had this problem due to the oil and gas boom, as did BC in the recent past.

I have had to have surgery in all three provinces that I lived in due to injury, once was emergency surgery that required an air medivac. I have also had numerous broken bones that required attention and on several occasions required physio and rehabilitation after................so I have a fair amount of experience with things so far in the places I have lived.

Wait times in BC are not great to see specialists or for surgery that is not considered high on the priority list. Alberta is better than BC.........Manitoba is super fast compared to the other two. I know you hear horror stories about things in Ontario, especially the greater Toronto area .....but ya know for us that is like New York City or LA is for you folks.

Doctor office wait times......well it varies. Most places you are not going to get in at the scheduled time and can expect a wait. Where I live now in Manitoba, there is rarely a wait and you usually whistle in to see the doctor right around when you were scheduled to.

Basic medical coverage fees, as in your monthly fee for coverate, is usually based on your income as you described and the number of dependants. This is often the case with prescription drugs as well. You can also get extra/extended coverage through private health care companies like Blue Cross if you think you need it. Lots of employers of course offer extended health packages, etc as part of the employee benefits.

Now having said that I will be a little more specific.......basic health care in Manitoba (where I live) is free to all residents and comes into effect after you live here for 3 months. Up to that point you are covered by the health care in the province you moved from. Prescription drug prices are based on income and reviewed annually. Wait times for specialists are not bad, a few days to a couple months. Diagnostic services are very good and wait time for surgery is not bad either. I had to have one of my knees operated on a while back (need to get the other done to) and because of what I do they scheduled the surgery to work for me based on when I am busy and the weeks of recovery time needed before I could use it reasonably hard again.

Taxes.............well you know this has a lot to do with what you are use to. Canada has always had higher taxes than the US. It is what it is, but I certainly don't have any big problem with it. There are a lot of issues up here that are part of the bigger picture and need to be taken into consideration....not just health care. We live in a country with a land base that is WAY bigger than the southern 48 and have to have the infrastructure from coast to coast to operate, yet we have a fraction of the population. Something like what?......340 million in the US and 33 million in all of Canada.

I will never complain about our health care system because I have had the experience of being flown from the sticks to the big city for emergency surgery due to a smashed hip socket and broken femur..............another time I had multiple broken bones from a motorcyce accident while on duty. I never had to worry about whether I had enough coverage or that my wife might have to sell the house to pay medical bills.

And just for interests sake.................when I had my hip put back together the surgeon in the hospital in Vancouver, BC, sent around an information pack for me to read while I was all hooked to tubes and such. It listed what my surgery actually cost in BC and what it would have cost in an average US hospital. The price tag in Canada was $30,000 +/-. In the US the same surgery would have cost over a $100,000. Those are real numbers and I can assure you I am not making this up.

A problem we do have Canada wide is the recruitment of doctors and nurses. Many that graduate from our universities are lured south of the 49th by higher wages. My daughter was in the nursing program at UBC and she started getting stroked by recruiters from hospitals in Texas and California when she was in her second year. I am not pointing fingers, it just is what it is and people like money. Another issue is that most physicians do not want to practice in small town Canada..........same reason, less money and they cannot specialize.

We have 100's of South African doctors practicing in rural Canada that immigrated.

With all of the boomers retiring over the next decade everyone is on the hunt for medical professionals, so I think we are all going to see problems no matter how your health care system is run as less medical staff are faced with all of the crocked and aging boomers.

OK..........I'm tired of typing. Cowgal if you have some specific questions about things I have not covered fire away and will get to them tomorrow.

Cheers!

[tonyoneword1]

I do appreciate everyones responses . Here in Jersey where I live and as I said it is a very liberal I am seeing the opposite. In fact the woman I shoed for yesterday [ farrier] ,was actually working for the Obama campaign and she was making fun of his leadership abilities. Here is someone who went door to door in support of him. Most people here have pulled their Obama stickers off their cars . What really scares me is Nj is running its local government the way Obama is trying to run the country. Our Gov. Jon Corzine [who is anti hunting took away the power of our Fish and wildlife and put it under DEP who is also run by antis. Since 92 our taxes are up around 1400%. Unemloyement is at the highest rate it has been inthis state in 36 years. We have the highest property taxes in the nation except for Cal. We have went from the highest wage paying state to the sixth and businesses are flocking to get out of here. The whole nation is headed for trickle up poverty. Unlike lowering taxes to around 30% like Reagen, Obama is dueing the complete opposite. :](*,) :](*,) .

[cowgal]

Makwa, thanks for the insight. Your experiences are similar to what I've heard from my Canadian friends. Most state that their health care is good, but are worried about a lack of new health care professionals, and impending shortage of health care.

Doctors and nurses do not leave the US after being trained, in fact as you stated about health care workers trained in Cananda, and then leaving for the US, we also have many doctors/nurses that practice here from other countries.Why do you think that is? Because we still have a free market system. Its not controlled by the government. Why would I want to work in an industry that is controlled and pricing is dictated by the government? I'm in business for myself and I sure don't want anyone else telling me what I can charge - or even worse when I send out a bill, only a portion gets paid because some entity decides my services are only worth a fraction.

You've stated that you're an outfitter. How would you feel if your government controlled your industry and set your pricing?

Don't get me wrong, I do believe we need health care reform. I just don't believe OUR government can provide good health care at a reasonable cost. I would also like to see the reform come about in smaller chunks, meaning - lets start by writing smaller bills and attacking smaller portions first, like tort reform, than move on to another manageable chunk of the problem. I think proposing such a massive overhaul of our system is overwhelming.