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Musky Mike · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 3

Back to the question. It is better to use "too big of a gun" than one not big enough. With that being said, most people can't shoot large caliber/hard kicking guns because they don't shoot them enough...so I think it is a good idea to hunt hogs with them. All off the guns listed would give you good result. The 470 Nitro, 416 Rem, and 375 H&H with standard bullets (i.e. very tough bullets made for thick skin African game) should work well and will not expand enough to "rip the living crap" out of the hog. I think these guns will not do as much damage as 7mm to 338 caliber magnums. Most of the time, major meat damage is done by very high velocity expanding bullets. For the 35 Whelen I would use a 225-250gr premium bullet like, Nosler Partion, Branes X, Hornady InterBond or Speer Grand Slam. Can you post result after you shoot some hogs with those big guns and we can see if our predictions are correct?

Whitworth · Joined: 14 Oct 2007 Posts: 108 Location: Virginia

Hey Mike. You are correct in that most folks can't handle the heavy recoil of these rifles, so we agree that they aren't for everybody. You need to practice, practice, pratice, to be proficient. As you correctly pointed out, smaller hyper-velocity cartridges seem to do more meat damage than a lumbering big-bullet. I have used my big-bores on lots of hogs and always catch grief from folks telling me that all you need is a .22 LR behind the ear, etc.....

270wsmbboss · Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 7

sorry to bother

Whitworth · Joined: 14 Oct 2007 Posts: 108 Location: Virginia

270wsmbboss wrote: sorry to bother

Did I miss something here?

Chuck S · Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Carlisle, Iowa

After reading all of this stuff, I think I'll just stick to my Savage Mod 12 .223 and Iowa coyotes.

I personally think that any well placed shot of any caliber and weight could have positive effects on any animal kill. Meat packing houses (aka butchers) have been known to use .22 to kill cattle for slaughter. I have also seen the same thing used on Bison on a ranch in Bosler, Wyoming in a chute. I have also seen them hit with .54cal black powder on the range with questionable results. Buddie Cremer, the owner, would use a .243 or a .270win (I forgot which one) because in his experience, he knew how to make the "well placed shot" to kill a bison bull instantly.

Is this bull? Maybe for some one else it might be. For me and my eyes and experience it is fact. The other guys that were there believe it too. I worked for Buddie for a few seasons in the early 80's and I have seen it happen. I have also slaughtered my own beef and pork. I shot a dairy goat 3 times with a .22 mag in the back of the skull before she finally went down with a shot in the ear. I was using a Davis derrenger so they were point blank shots.

Will a .444 marlin kill a cape buffalo? I have never done it but I believe anything is possible. Just because I've never done it or seen it done does not mean it can't be done or that it did not happen. I was not there so I do not know.
At some point in history I'm sure a few have gone down to bow and arrow or spears. A lot of grizzlies, elk, and moose have given in to one single well placed hit from a broadhead. Personally I perfer a minimum of a .308 Win for these animals and that is questionable sometimes.

I have seen what .444 will do to elk, grizzly bear, white tails, mulies and caribou. It is hell on a snowshoe too ! I think it will have definate effects against a cape buffalo. There will be life threatening damage. I believe that to be fact.

Maybe the man is talking out of his butt. But the truth and fact is simple. I did not see it so I really do not know. Only an fool would argue with the eyewitness. You ever wonder why eyewitnesses are so highly valued in a court of law?

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Chuck S

Whitworth · Joined: 14 Oct 2007 Posts: 108 Location: Virginia

Chuck, the animal in question wasn't a cape buffalo.......

No one is arguing that smaller calibers can't kill as they most certainly have. A 40 grain .22 behind the ear will kill nearly anything. The issue is that when in the field, the perfect shot quite frequently doesn't present itself. So what do you do? Hope for the best? I go with heavier calibers that I know will penetrate to the vitals from any angle. Heavy bullets with good sectional density at moderate velocity just penetrate like hell.

Not arguing, just clarifying my position on the issue. The reason that there are minimum calibers for DG in Africa, and the .444, being a glorified .44 magnum doesn't qualify. Again, not trying to be argumentative..........

Chuck S · Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Carlisle, Iowa

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Yeah I love my .444.... She's my goto gun. Hit a Cape Buff at 150 yards with it right behind the shoulder and retrieved the bullet in the off side skin. I was IMPRESSED to say the least ....... end quote

Actually the debate is about killing a Cape Buffalo at 150 yards with a .444 Marlin.
I was just spending my two cents. Thanks for the reply. I hope to get to hunt elk and deer again once I get moved to New Mexico. I definately want to try javelina and a hog. Might have to go to Texas for that though. I'm debating on buying a 7mm 08 or a .338 Federal. Both will hunt anything I would ever hunt in North America. I'm leaning more towards the 7mm08 honestly.

Have a good day unless you have already made other plans.

Chuck S

cam69conv · Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Posts: 651 Location: Summit, IL

Sorry for the mixup there chuck. The debate was my fault. We (the guy that owned it) were under the impression that it was a cape but it was actually a Phillipino water buffalo... Around the same size and temperment but different in a few ways as well...

Chuck S · Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Carlisle, Iowa

OK ...now I understand. Thanks

Chuck S

Whitworth · Joined: 14 Oct 2007 Posts: 108 Location: Virginia

Chuck, I choose to have good days when possible...... :thumbsup1:

A friend shot a wild long-horn last month with his .338 Federal, and was really impressed with its performance. Loaded with TSXs (I think they were 225 grain but need to confirm), it punched a fist-sized hole through the heart -- can't argue with that!!

My go-to squirrel gun is an old Ruger M77 in .338 win mag that I normally stoke with 250 grain Partition Golds. It's damn effective!! I like the .338 calibers and recommend them highly.

Chuck S · Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Carlisle, Iowa

I like what I have read about the .338 Federal. Good solid hard hitting pellet wiht the effects of a magnum load with out the recoil. I have always been a fan of the .308win and the 338 is built from that. It is a 308 case with a larger bullit. 7mm 08 went the other direction. 308 case wiht the 7mm bullit. More range but less hit as I understand it.

Thanks for your input.
Chuck S

Kirrmeister · Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 191 Location: Bavaria, Germany

Hello from Germany!

The most used calibers for hunting feral hogs here in GE is the .30-06, many hunters take also the original german cartridge, the 8x57 IS Mauser. Further more a .308 with heavy bullet is also good. The point is not the bigness of the cal. but the shotplacement and distance. The anatomy of a hog is very different to deers. In most cases you have to aim in the center of the hog's body to get a deadly hit. Many hunters here in GE aim behind the ears and hit in many cases the backbone, but in a bad way, so you have a wounded escaping hog. Searching such an animal is not much fun both for the hunter and the dog.
On drive hunts slugs are often used.

Regards

Kirrmeister

Chuck S · Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Carlisle, Iowa

Wow! That is impressive. Hello to Germany. By the way you write, I'd say your a German National and not an American soldier stationed there.

I keep giving thought to getting a 7mm08 as an alternate to my Savage .223 win that I bought for coyotes. I think it would be a pretty good shooter to about 300+ yards. I plan to move to New Mexico later and I think it would be a good choice there also. Currently I live southeast of Des Moines, Iowa.

I wish I could find a .338 Federal and a 7mm 08 I could test shoot before I buy.

Thanks for writing from Germany and sharing your experience.

Kirrmeister · Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 191 Location: Bavaria, Germany

Hi Chuck!

you are right. I'm german citizen from southern Bavaria. But I'm very interested in the US-hunting scene also, because for me the USA are the land for hunters. i'm in this forum and in the muzzlelaodingforum.com, because since 1 year I also hunt with ML, which is not very common in GE. In comparison to Germany the US.hunters are much more liberal and not so conservative as our german hunters in Loden green.

Hope to get more expiriences and impressions via the forum!

Regards

Kirrmeister

Chuck S · Joined: 09 Nov 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Carlisle, Iowa

Kirrmiester;

Hopefull someday you'll be able to come experience some hunting in thr USA.
I was out doing some scouting for coyote hunting the other day and saw a massive whitetail buck.
I'll keep you posted on my hunting adventures if I can ever get them started. Seems like everytime I plan to start, something else happens.
I have never been to Germany or anywhere else in Europe, but I would like to come visit someday, expecially since the eastern countries are opened now too.