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[fuzzybear]

Does the size, shape, diameter or capacity of a round have anything to do with it's accuracy.
There is no exclusive but there are many a favored short case round used in the accuracy field. Is there reasoning behind this?
Also, there seems to be a velocity, at the muzzle, range that is favored.

[Don Fischer]

I'm not sure there is such a thing. I think that there are cartridges that either are extremely easy to shoot with superb match bullets in that cal, or some easy to shoot new in vogue round comes around that is used so much it appears more accurate than its predecessor. In bench rest, I know that the 222 Rem is no linger in vogue but, with all the improvements in powders and bedding, why wouldn't it run right along with the likes of the 22 PPC or the 6mm PPC? I suspect it would. If there are 100 world class shooters on the line and 95 are shooting a PPC the rest 222 Rem's, the outcome will be fairly predictable. I think it was the 222 Rem that Gail McMillan shot the .009" group with. No PPC has stepted up ti that yet. They miss by thousands of an inch which in bench rest competation is huge. Or are you thinking hunting accuracy?

First we'd have to define hunting accuracy. In realistic terms, not what accuracy buffs use. It amazes me that an accuracy buff feels the need for a rifle that will shoot in the 3's so that he can hit an elk at 75yds precicely! I think there are a number of things more important than case design for that. Start with the shooter himself, then go thru the rifle and then good ammunition.

[fuzzybear]

I was in reference to target accuracy.
I'm not asking. I'm looking for feedback on the topic.

[Don Fischer]

I kind of though that might be the case. So I still don't know if the PPC's aced out the 222 Rem because they were so accurate or just a new fad. With the quality of bench resters out there, most accurate cartridge is a mute point. Rather it's which shooter has the good day. It would be intresting to see what the different target cartridges could do against one another shot out of a vice. I'm not sure we could measure the difference.

[fuzzybear]

I don't keep up on target shooting but it seems as lately that the favor is directed toward the short cases. 6.5/284 and the 300wsm necked to 7mm, in the 1000 yd, being two. These two are also within the, seems to be favored, muzzle velocity of between 2900 and 3100 fps. The 222 rem and the PPC's are also short.

I have gained a favor toward the short cased rounds as lately and have found them much easier to work with in hunting accuracy, with hunting bullets.

I'm curious as to whether anyone has noticed if there was an advantage or inherency to target accuracy, with the short cases.

Or is this simply a trend. With the accuracy they are getting. Just a trend would be hard to believe.

[remington]

With enough time and money you can make just about any set up shoot accurately. The benchresters want every little detail done to perfection to shoot the smallest group possible (which is cool and I have no issue). I have had a few rigs of different calibers that I've tried EVERYTHING with an couldn't break the majical MOA with. For me anything better than MOA is gravy. Keep shooting and support your sport!

[Don Fischer]

I don't think I've ever seen any proof about short cases and accuracy. I know that's the claim but I think it's more someone shot some great groups and won some matches so everyone jumps on the band wagon. The truth I think is that the rifles themselves are getting more accurate, the bullets better. It would be interesting to know what improvements in the rifles themselves came about the same time as the wonder cartridges.

If in fact there is truth to the short case claim, how would you prove it? I think the biggest improvements are in bedding, stocks and bullets. Look at the pains taken to build match type rifles.

We've been listening to this inherent accuracy stuff for years. Remember when the 308 was more accurate than the 30-06? Some were, what's that prove?
You couldn't sell me a new cartridge based on the idea of inherent accuracy because of a short case. You could based on the idea of delivering optimum velocity for bullet performance.

[fuzzybear]

They have 1000 yd matches at one of the local sporting clubs and many a round has been used in these matches.
There does seem to be a trend of sorts. It wasn't but a short time after the 6.5/284 was the leader in the 1000 yd that the wsm's were developed and there was talk that these short fatties were being worked with for the 1000 yds.
A couple of years later we have a wildcatted wsm cased round shooting under 3" at 1000 yds.
Now it may be coincidence or better bullets or it may be the development of the rifles that are being used are of a better quality but, unless I'm mistaken, I don't see the Baer's, Lapuas or any of the other large capacity rounds getting those kinds of accuracies.

[91xlt]

I do not believe so....
my opinion, take it for what it's worth.
I believe accuracy stems from the platform...not the cartridge

[fuzzybear]

I was at the range one afternoon and one of the 1000 yds shooter was trying to get his 6.5/284 to shoot a particular bullet at a muzzle velocity of exactly 3000 fps. He would fire one round through a chronograph. Go back to his mobile trailer loading bench, load another and another.
I didn't stay around long enough to see the results but he seemed to think that 3000 fps would be the cat's meow for the round.
This indicates to me that the round, load and velocity were the primary considerations. The firearm didn't change.
Also, with talking to some of these gentlemen. There is a lot of time and effort put into the building of the round. Turning brass and bullets. Checking balance and wall thickness, etc...

Let me add that some of the shooters that hang out at this range are national and world class shooters and winners.

This doesn't indicate that they aren't jumping on the band wagon but there is an extreme amount of effort put into the development of the round but the rifles are not your standard, over the counter firearms either.

[Don Fischer]

My best guess would be that the large capacity cases just aren't user friendly enough. I don't know how many shots make a match but would think at least ten. Fire ten shots with a large capacity case and you start getting rummy. The 260 was developed as a 1000yd cartridge to tame recoil.

That recoil issue is probably why their going to 6.5's also. I'd think I would rather shoot a bunch of 140gr bullets out of a 284 case than 200gr bullets out of a Baer case. Even then I don't think the 200gr bullets quite make the ballistic qualities of the 140gr 6.5 bullets. 200gr bullets .462 BC, 140gr bullets .495BC. Drop down to 168gr bullets in 30 cal to control recoil and the gap widens conciderably.

[JCalhoun]

I shoot 600/1000 yard F-Class matches. I use a custom Savage with a 30" heavy barrel in .260 Ackley Improved. I use a 139gr Lapua Scenar BTHP bullet with 42gr H4350. This gets me 2860fps and is the most accurate velocity for this rifle/bullet. It uses 11.5 moa of elevation at 600 yards and 28 moa at 1000 yards.

My next project is to screw on a 28" barrel chambered in 7WSM and run the 175gr Sierra MatchKings.

[JTapia]

JCalhoun wrote: I shoot 600/1000 yard F-Class matches. I use a custom Savage with a 30" heavy barrel in .260 Ackley Improved. I use a 139gr Lapua Scenar BTHP bullet with 42gr H4350. This gets me 2860fps and is the most accurate velocity for this rifle/bullet. It uses 11.5 moa of elevation at 600 yards and 28 moa at 1000 yards.

My next project is to screw on a 28" barrel chambered in 7WSM and run the 175gr Sierra MatchKings.


Does that come with Dual Exhaust? ::neener:

I'd like to see that, you have to post a pic.

[JCalhoun]

Good idea. I will work on that. :D

[maddenwh]

At one point, the 300 H&H won the 1000 yard contest (long time ago, and I can't remember the year or the man), and it became the new hot shot. It's a long case, but obviously that was years ago. I'm with Don here in that it's more likely what bullet was used by the last guy that won.

Some savants can shoot similar groups with 45/70's. In some extremes there are innate differences (i.e. a boat tail is more accurate than a hollow point), but in my opinion, it is the rifle and the shooter that make most of the difference. Then again, I'm not a long distance guy, at least in terms of hunting.

Also, Im sure some bullet types and cals. are more accurate with certain wind conditions... heavier faster bullets are less effected than lighter slower bullets etc. But, everyone knows that.