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[expatriate]

PETA has been able to figure out what has eluded the best scientists in the world:
http://www.peta.org/feat/sars/

Is there any limit to how low a snake-oil salesman will go to market his product?

[ This Message was edited by: expatriate on 2003-04-24 00:21 ]

[bitmasher]

The article reads more like a study in why China should have better ag practices, rather than a convincing arguement for being a vegan.

It is a bit misleading though (suprise, suprise, suprise). The ag industry in china is not the "intense raising" suggested by the chicken photo on page. In fact, the typical farm is small (100 acres or less) and sustains just the family which resides there. The reason that china seems to be more of a breeding crowd for viruses like SARS has to do with the fact that they raise large quantities of ducks (which have notoriously weak immune systems) in close proximity to pigs. The waterfowl -> pig -> human jump for viruses is pretty well documented and is believed to have caused some of the killer viruses of the past.

Better innoculation of the livestock and ag practices could more realistically reduce the chance of virus propogation than trying to change Chinesse culinary habits.

[bitmasher]

This thread is older but couldn't resist posting this...

The SARS virus might have originated in outer space, according to a scientist in Britain.

I assume the Raelian's will use this as further proof that we have alien ancestors....

[Vegan_Cannibal]

bitmasher wrote:
Better innoculation of the livestock and ag practices could more realistically reduce the chance of virus propogation than trying to change Chinesse culinary habits.

I agree, but...
People really need to look at the current innoculation process for meat production- I feel we are all at a high risk global epidemic of drug resistant viri.
Currently roughly 70% of the antibiotics produced in the US go to meat production. The majority of these antibiotics are given to "healthy" animals just as a precaution and that scares me. Antibiotic resistant bacteria is on the rise many people once treated effectively for diseases such as pneumonia, tuberculosis, or ear infections may now have to try three or more antibiotics before they find one that works. This can only lead to more people dying because effective antibiotics aren't found in time-
I could go on, but I won't,

V_C

[cowgal]

Vegan_Cannibal wrote:
... Currently roughly 70% of the antibiotics produced in the US go to meat production....


This is one good reason why many people like to hunt for their meat. We feel its a healthy alternative to purchasing store-bought meat from unknown origins. I've always preferred venison, elk, gamebirds, and freshly caught fish. Not only is wild game free of antibiotics but its also low in fat.

[Vegan_Cannibal]

I support that belief- If your gonna eat it- you may as well get it yourself, right?

[Captain_Obvious]

Antibiotics are administered to the animals to control Salmonella and E.Coli bacteria. They serve no purpose at all for viral agents, as they do not affect viruses. BTW: I don't know if SARS originated in outer space, but I am quite certain PETA did. Antibiotic-resistant bacteria affecting humans are not among those coming from livestock. At least not the major threats. The most serious, and majority of pathogens involved in antibiotic-resistance cases are Streptococcus Pneumoniae, also called Pneumococcus, a common cause of ear infections, septicemia, meningitis, sinusitis, and pneumonia, is found antibiotic resistant, in some areas, in as much as 25% of isolates. Staphylococcus Aureus, a common cause of throat and sinus infections, and occasionally septicemia and endocarditis, is also an increasing threat in this regard. Both germs are carried by humans, and usually cause infections when resistance to them is lowered.

[bitmasher]

As CaptO pointed out, antibiotic resistantance is moot in relation to viruses (and prions for that matter). What I was referring to with the "innoculation" is the development of animal vaccines, which are developed much more rapidly than human correlaries (an example is the equine vaccine already available for west nile virus, but none available for people).

However, gratuitous use of antibiotics in people and modern ag practices is a problem. Although this isn't an agruement for vegetarian absolutism though, rather it is statement that we need to be more scrupulous in our use of this great tool we discovered called antibiotics.

[bitmasher]

Also I just like to point out that I'm not aware of any cases, other than the rare anomaly of anyone dying of drug resistant bacteria. True cases of people having a drug resistant infection are on the rise, but so are microbiology labs that are rapid hit-squads to identify the culprit of an infection and treat it with a antibody that is not approved for ag use.

[Vegan_Cannibal]

Super Bugs Pose Bigger Threat than SARS

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/64/72307.htm

[bitmasher]

Lets say we ban antibiotic use in animals to prevent "super bugs". Some simple observations:

1.) Efficiency of meat food production goes down, meat costs go up. Food costs go up. Poor people then spend more of their limited income on food. Nutritional habits go down, more illness in the indigent.

2.) Banning antibiotic use in animals will not stop bacterial evolution, in other words, regardless of what we do in ag, the super bug problem will still be there and their is no proof that the problem will be any more or less managable.

[Captain_Obvious]

Potentially fatal infections by antibiotic resistant germs really don't have much to do with livestock. Streptococcus Pneumoniae, Neisseria Meningitidis,. Haemophilus Influenzae, and other bacteriums like these, are carried by humans not animals. Salmonella is usually treated with rest and rehydration, antibiotics are avoided except in the case of septicemia. Same for most zoonotic infections.

[stupiddeer]

Everyone knows what PETA stands for.....People Eating Tasty Animals... :D

[truk]

PETA =