BigGameHunt.net Hunting Forums

[moderator]

July 2007 Poll:

Is a food plot considered baiting?

[atomikall]

K I would like for the people that voted no it isnt to explain to me how that isnt baiting because I think it is, Actually no I know it is but thats my point of view you tell me how you planting crops in the bush to get the animals there is not baiting them in if that food wasnt where you put it would they still come to that spot the answer is NO.

[expatriate]

Interesting point, but I would have to ask if it's ethical to hunt over an alfalfa field. If the answer to that one is "yes," then the line gets a little fuzzier.

IMO food plots aren't in the same category as dumping a load of sugar beets or carrots in the woods shortly before opening day. Food plots often aren't just about putting animals in a particular spot on opening day. Such plots contribute to the health of the herd throughout the summer as they grow, and therefore are a way of improving habitat for the animal population.

So there's the quandary. Which is more ethical to hunt over -- an alfalfa plot raised for profit that the deer rob from, or a food plot devoted to the deer and planted to sustain them throughout the year? Even a non-plot hunter will take advantage of terrain, cover, and natural sources of food and water to hunt areas more likely to contain animals. There's a big difference between bait that's there two weeks out of the year vs vegetation that's there for the long haul.

[saskie]

For the record, I voted no.

I agree it can be a fuzzy line. I used to think much liek Atom until I found myself in a area with: a - a lower than average deer population (NS - near our cottage), and b - everyone (and I mean everyone) else sets bait. I have used apples, without success and the only deer I have seen in NS have been from stands which were not over apple piles.

I seriously believe that any deer worth shooting in NS knows what it means when those piles of carrots and apples suddenly materialize in the bush in Sep/Oct.

I also used to think hunting big game with dogs was utterly immoral until I moved to an area where it was just part of the local hunting culture (Ottawa Valley, Ont).There I met a lot of good honest folks who used dogs because it was "just the way you hunt deer". It's still not for me, but I'm not so quick to judge people anymore. If it's legal - go for it. I might not join you, but go for it.

[atomikall]

For the record I only hunt deer with dogs when Im with my family because thats how they hunt and have always hunted so I have to go with it, on the other hand they only hunt the mornin of everyday so I dont have too put up with the dogs all day anyway and get a little time to try out my other methods of deer hunting. On another point Id like to say I do bait bears but its more work then just 2 weeks of the year here in ontario the MNR will give you 2 months before the hunt time, money and hard work to keep up with a bait site. For alfa alfa as feed you plant it and leave, come back 4 months later and what do you know a whole crop of alfa alfa, to me I think you work harder bringing and hauling bait in and outta the bush to your bait every 2 days or so. Now I would like to know the difference when you know that bait is going to grow and be there in hunting season there is nothing different about it unless of course you plan on selling the crops or crop you produce if not you are planting it as bait and I say its all the same. All you guys saying no can sit there and think that all you want it aint my morals its yours you wanna sit and say Im wrong whatever I'll still disagree anytime you give me the chance ITS BAITING period.

[saskie]

I hear you. For me this difference is the intent. If the intent is to attract deer, then as far as I'm concerned yes, it's the same as bait. Which I would class under the heading of "different strokes for different folks".

If the primary intention is to sell the hay than that's different only the person planting the plot/hayield and the Almighty knows the difference.

atomikall wrote: For the record I only hunt deer with dogs when Im with my family because thats how they hunt and have always hunted

saskie wrote: I met a lot of good honest folks who used dogs because it was "just the way you hunt deer"....I'm not so quick to judge people anymore. If it's legal - go for it. I might not join you, but go for it."

My next door neighbour in Ottawa is a dogger for a local hunting group. He's also probably the most honest, decent and reliable man I know in the Ottawa Valley. Who am I to judge him...?

[atomikall]

HEY YOU you beat me home tonight eh? I seen you were the first poster in the new forum damn LOL but who better than a buddy I met on here now I just gotta post my good story I have for you about my latest fishing trip and a damn great story and pics bro seems to me like you and your wife have some pretty great storys thanks for sharing man.Now back to this post I totally agree with you and yep some of the best people in the world live in ontario atleast Id like to think so anyway.

[expatriate]

Interesting debate. It seems odd to me that someone would question whether a food plot is fair chase, and then turn right around and talk about dog hunting with no reservations at all. But then, I've never hunted deer with dogs. But if I were in an area where that was common practice, I'd probably give it a try.

Not my place to cast judgment...I've hunted all over the country. There are no absolutes in our sport when it comes to such things, and I've long ago learned that what goes in one part of the world doesn't go in another.

Minnesota was group hunting with slugs and a lot of snap shots in the brush. I've since been to other places where they looked horrified when I told them that.

When I told people in Montana I used to hunt squirrels, they looked at me with disgust -- as if I told them I liked to eat sewer rats.

Michigan was bait territory -- stores had stacks of garbage bags full of beets, carrots, and apples in the fall. I was shocked until I heard that they expected 700,000 hunters in the state's woods on opening day. Don't compete and you don't hunt.

Most of the hunting in Alabama was locked up in private land and hunt club leases. I knew a guy that let me hunt a couple hundred acres of his that he carefully managed by opening clearings, planting multiple food plots, building stands, etc. It was good for the deer and besides, if you didn't hunt like that in Alabama, you didn't hunt (at least not successfully).

I hunted on Ft Bragg in North Carolina, where the deer aren't bothered by human scent or the sound of gunfire. They had food plots scattered around the training areas, but you still had to out-think the deer and anticipate where they'd be. When my son got his first deer there, I was able to back the truck up the firebreak and we only had to drag the deer about five feet.

In Alaska it's a different story. There's millions of acres of public land, but it's tough to penetrate. So unless you've got an ATV, snowmobile, boat, or airplane you're going to be competing with other hunters. The general rule up here is the more you pay for the toy, the fewer people you'll see when you get there. No toys, and you're stuck close to the road with the amateurs and little bulls.

I've seen a lot of diversity -- there's no one rule that works for everyone.

[Great West]

I voted no also. Interesting read here on the different points of view. Baiting is illegal in our state now for the last couple of years. The main reason the baiting law was passed here was to help control the spread CWD. I have never been one for dumping a pile of corn out or setting blocks, maybe I was just too lazy. :D I have planted a food plot from time to time. Good topic.

[Old Professor]

Very interesting topic!! Here in Michigan, as another post mentioned, baiting is done by more than half of all deer hunters. A few years ago, this was a fifty million dollar a year bonus for farmers who produce and sell agricultural products used as bait. A few years back, Michigan put severe limits on the ammount of bait that could be put out at a stand. The reason for the limits was concern over Bovine TB and its spreading through contact at bait piles. I have seen bait piles in the past that contained literally TONS of bait. The potential spread of disease is the biggest negative to baiting with large quantities of bait. Back onto the subject of food plots; is hunting an apple orchard really any different than hunting over a pile of apples? How about planting apple trees to attract deer to your property? Or applying fertilizer to oak trees to increase acorn yield? We look for places where deer feed to improve our hunting odds. If you happen to live or hunt in a area with little or no agricultural food sources, food plots may be the best way to see deer and possibly benefit the deer herd. It all comes down to ethics and what is ethical is determined by local customs as much as by any abstract idea. (see the posts mentioning hunting deer with dogs)

[CVC]

Defining "baiting" and whether or not baiting is ethical is really two separate discussions.

Baiting is defined as an act intended to lure or entice.

So, in my opinion, if you plant a food plot that is intended to lure or entice animals to that area then it is a form of baiting.

If you hunt over an agricultural feed or in an orchard that is intended for production then that is strategy.

Ethicially, I don't think there is any difference between putting corn on the ground, planting a food plot or hunting over an agricultural crop field. But, by definition, the first two are examples of baiting and the third is not.

[atomikall]

I totally agree CVC Im not gonna push my beliefs on anybody I believe we hunt the way we hunt because we all learned somewhere from dads to grandfathers to greatgrandfathers. Its just how I was taught from family members and my grandfather he wasnt much for deer dogs but the other half of my family was so I just went with it. We hunt a farm with over 1000 acres and by foot is impossible to cover lets 3 or 4 dogs go and its covered in a couple hours and the deer come right out into the fields to get away from those dogs most of the time you can watch the deer play with the dogs mostly the bucks its like they are laughing at the dogs for even trying to chase them the does and fawns on the other hand are high tailing through the fields when they come out. I personally have seen a deer jump into a pond with the dog following get to the other side wait when the dog got close enough jump back in a swim the other way the dog eventually gave up and the deer just stood there watching him. One of the main reasons I bait bears is because its the much safer way to hunt them here spot and stalk is really hard because the bush here is so dense and most of the time you get to close to them or they get to close to you either way you know what happens when you get in front of a hungry bear looking for a meal. The reason I walk to my bait every 2 days is so that I dont have to put thousands of pounds of feed there I leave just enough to keep them guessing whats going to be in the box tommorrow night and most of my meat I bring in is frozen when I bring it so theres alot less chance they are eating bad meat because they will hit it while its still frozen I find alot less bugs too when its frozen come to munch on it.

[expatriate]

There's another aspect of this I haven't heard brought up.

I bet if you checked votes, most folks from the West would be against it, and a lot of the bait and food plot people are from areas of the US with a lot of people, little public land, and smaller areas of private land.

So I'd be curious to know how much of the issue relates to access. Out West you can cover a lot of ground and go find animals. But in a lot of areas of the country your range is limited by the size of the land you have permission to hunt, which may be smaller than the animal's territory. So if you can't cross fences to go after them, you kind of have to convince the animals to cross the fence and come to you, don't you?

[tim]

what about salt? is this baiting and is it different than planting a food plot?

might as well throw another item in the mix. lol

[Whelland]

It is my opinion that any time you utilize an artificial food source, it is baiting.

With that being said, it appears that the debate is whether or not baiting is ethical.

If someone wants to hunt over bait, that's OK with me. It doesn't matter whether it's a food plot or a pile of carrots.

Fred Bear was one of the most ethical hunters to ever enter the woods with a bow in hand. My friends, sometimes Fred Bear hunted over bait. If it was ethical for Fred, it is ethical for others to do so.

Anyone that calls this practice unethical should be ashamed of themselves.

Many people want to outlaw the practice of baiting. We do not need more laws. The more laws we have that limit hunting practices, the closer we are to having our rights taken away.

What's next? Will someone say that grunt calls should be against the law, because it "lures" a buck in my direction?

Go ahead and hunt over a bait pile or food plot. Use your calls, scents, lures and artifical scrapes. If you live in an area that allows you to chase them with dogs, and that's what you enjoy, by all means do so.

I've hunted over bait piles in Michigan, food plots in Alabama, and chased them with dogs in Florida. I've used calls, scents and lures just about everywhere in between. Guess what? I had a lot of fun doing it and never once did I feel I was doing anything unethical.

I'm sure I'll get some negative responses, but Jimmy cracked corn.......and you guessed it..........I don't care.