BigGameHunt.net Hunting Forums

[rather_be_huntin]

Don Fischer wrote:
You also spoke of an elk with four vital's shot's that ran off. But then described two of the shot's as #1 liver #2 kidney. Correct me if I'm wrong but, aren't those organs in the gut chamber? That will certainly kill in time but, qualifies as gut shot!

By the way, I,m not a 270 fan.

Honestly I don't know if that would qualify as gut shot or not. Maybe so, definitely not the optimum bullet placement for sure. But the way the story unfolded is I believe those two hits were when the elk was on the move after the first shot hit the shoulder and the elk "took off." He knew he had hit the animal solid just by it's body language and he didn't want it to run off so for hitting a moving animal he did the best he could. I have to admit though I've never seen any other elk take so much to go down. That one must've had his Wheaties that morning. In all seriousness though I believe the first shot shattered on the blade and the animal had a serious adreline rush and he simply "took" the other hits. My only point was had that bullet penetrated the shoulder on the first shot, I probably wouldn't be telling this story.

[Deathwind]

.338 win.mag. 225 gr.nos.part. end of story,and yes i can shoot it as accurate as my .270 or .308. god i love a gun with attitude.

[147 Grain]

Within Reason:

Shot Placement should be considered first, then bullet construction, then caliber last of all.

Steve

[rather_be_huntin]

147 Grain wrote: Within Reason:

Shot Placement should be considered first, then bullet construction, then caliber last of all.

Steve

Interesting phylosophy. However in my opinion all should be EQUALLY considered. Take any one of the above and remove them from the formula, especially with elk, and you're tracking a wounded animal.

[fuzzybear]

Well said, both of you
My ability to hit the target, with the rifle I plan on using, at the ranges I plan on shooting, should be sharpened before I consider a hunt.
A heavy jacket bullet (heavy for cal) with enough bone penetrating power to make it to the vitals at any angle of entry. Anything else would be a risk, at the least.
I want the hunt to end the instant after I squeeze off the round.

[147 Grain]

fuzzbear:

I agree!

Most hunters don't practice much to sharpen their shooting skills, nor reasearch bullet construction enough to make an intelligent decision. Instead, their priorities are:

* Caliber, then shot placement, and maybe type of bullet.

[Hunt4Elk85]

I was very shocked to see back on the first page of this thread, that somebody wrote a .243 with a 100 grain bullet at 250 yards as being the minimum. Its a proven fact that it takes a minimum 1500 ft./lbs. kinetic energy at the target, to take an elk. A .270 with a 150 grain bullet at 200 yards, barely produces 1500ft./lbs. of kinectic energy. Now, if you have been around elk as much as I have, you probably have developed that same great amount of respect for these magnificant animals, and you know just how hard they are to kill. So a .243 with a 100 grain bullet at 250 yards is not only flat out stupid, in my mind it is a slap in the face to the elk. Now I have seen elk taken with a .243, but these elk were stalked and shot within 25 yards.

[Captain_Obvious]

''A .270 with a 150 grain bullet at 200 yards, barely produces 1500ft./lbs. of kinectic energy.''

That depends on the bullet and the load.

[Hunt4Elk85]

Well, what I ment by barely is it produces 1587 ft lbs of kinetic energy, at least that is what I have in one of my tables for average factory loaded .270 ammunition with 150grain bullets. The .270 is a great round for elk , and I know a lot of old timers that swear by it. In my opinion Elk cartridges start with the .270 and end with the .375 h&h mag. I guess the most important component in picking the right cartridge for elk is to pick the biggest caliber that you can shoot comfortably.

[147 Grain]

Not sure where you got your info from, but most factory ammo out there is in the 1,900 - 2,000 range for energy at 200 yards.

* Here's some 200 yard energy data for the 270 Win with 24" barrel from Winchester's 2005 Catalog - p. 10:

130-gr. Power Point Plus = 1,993
130-gr. Ballistic Silvertip CT = 1,978
140-gr. AccuBond CT = 2,038
140-gr. Fail Safe = 1,843
150-gr. Power Point Plus = 1,959
150-gr. Partition Gold CT = 2,030

* From Federal's 2005 Catalog - p. 8, 270 Win 200 yard energy figures with 24" barrel:

130-gr. Sierra Game King BTSP = 1,980
130-gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip = 1,990
130-gr. Barnes Triple Shock X-Bullet = 1,980
130-gr. Nosler Partition = 1,965
130-gr. Nosler Solid Base = 1,955
140-gr. Nosler AccuBond = 2,060
140-gr. Trophy Bonded Bear Claw = 1,905
140-gr. High Energy Trophy Bonded Bear Claw = 2,145
150-gr. Sierra Game King BTSP = 2,040
150-gr. Nosler Partition = 2,020

* From Remington's 2005 Catalog p. 79 - 80, 270 Win 200 yard energy figures with 24" barrel:

130-gr. AccuTip Boat Tail = 2,009
130-gr. Swift Scirocco Bonded = 1,991
130-gr. Core Lokt Pointed Soft Point = 1,818
130-gr. Bronze Point = 1,890
140-gr. Core Lokt Bonded = 1,826
140-gr. Swift A-Frame Pointed Soft Point = 1,782
150-gr. Core Lokt Soft Point Round Nose = 1,587

[147 Grain]

Hunt4Elk85:

Was your 1,587 ft. lbs of energy figure from Remington's 2005 Catalog ; I.E. 150-gr. Core Lokt Soft Point Round Nose = 1,587 at 200 yards?

If so, the round nosed Core Lokt is a good short range projectile, but it loses velocity in a hurry with its' low BC of only .261. Many of the loads in my above post have BC's in the high 400's to 500 and this is why they have a lot more retained downrange energy at 200 yards.