15 replies [Last post]
GooseHunter Jr's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Colorado
Joined: 09/28/2005
Posts: 3745
Would you??

Do not look at the size of the animal, but more how he is standing.

Would you take a shot with a bow at 25yds?

This is what I was given on staurday.....this is not the animal just a picture I found my bull was standing inbetween two tress?

Thanks

redrider's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: NE Kansas
Joined: 03/20/2006
Posts: 2603
Would you??

Very risky shot. I have shot a whitetail from that angle when I was young and dumb, but wouldn't take that shot now. I got lucky once and have learned to give the animal and myself a much better chance Thumbs up

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Re: Would you??
GooseHunter Jr wrote:
Do not look at the size of the animal, but more how he is standing.

Would you take a shot with a bow at 25yds?

This is what I was given on staurday.....this is not the animal just a picture I found my bull was standing inbetween two tress?

Thanks

I recently read an article in a bow hunting magazine that discussed frontal shots for elk. The author advised this was an ethical and viable shot to take. Unlike whitetail the frontal shot is a high percentage and often the only shot available when hunting elk.

So, based on the information in the article, some consideration of my own, I'd have to say yes I"d take it.

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Would you??

I recently read an article in a bow hunting magazine that discussed frontal shots for elk. The author advised this was an ethical and viable shot to take. Unlike whitetail the frontal shot is a high percentage and often the only shot available when hunting elk.

So, based on the information in the article, some consideration of my own, I'd have to say yes I"d take it.

Offline
Moderator
Location: Kentucky/ Colorado
Joined: 06/23/2005
Posts: 1741
Would you??

Tough call. I personally would pray he'd turn. I love a double lung shot for both rifle & bow. Saying that.....if he didn't turn and it was my only shot.......that is a tough one. I feel very comfortable shooting at 25 yards and can hit a 3-4" circle, with 10 out of 10 arrows. His heart is at least 5-6" wide, if not wider. A well placed arrow in that meaty part between his legs will get into vitals and with every step he will swish that broadhead back and forth, if the arrow doesn't fly all the way through him, which I doubt it will in that big 'Ole Boy. Still tough call.

Goose, I would rather not have shot, then to have taken it and lost him. Good call Friend.

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3183
Would you??

I don't know squat about bow hunting. I'v had three, all recurves and pre aluminum arrows. But as I look at that shot I'd think that it's a fairly small target for an arrow. Miss a little off to either side and your going into a shoulder. Nothing vital in there. That shot would be a gimme for a rifle. if your 25 yds from an elk and he doesn't know your there, wait a bit, he'll probally move.

Now one question. Why would that be a bad shot on a whitetail and not an elk?

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Would you??
Don Fischer wrote:
I
Now one question. Why would that be a bad shot on a whitetail and not an elk?

The author based it on size of the animal. It would be a much smaller target to hit on the whitetail.

Offline
Joined: 07/03/2006
Posts: 232
Would you??

If the question your struggling with, isin regard to if you could hit the heart than you have no business even considering the shot IMO. I can hit a half dollar 8 shots out of ten with my compound at 40 yards when I am practiced to hunt. Whether i could hit what i am aiming at is absolutely not an issue.

The question I would have is that eyeball looking dead down on me and knowing that when he hears that bow fire he is definately moving one way or another. My question would be will he be there in that exact pose when my arrow gets there. At 25 yards with a good knowledge of the anatomy it would be tough to let that bull walk away. What would make me not take this shot on the animal pictured is he has already seen you, he is fixing to bolt, and if you arent already drawn your never going to be anyhow. I would consider this a poor choice. Honestly i wouldnt take it being a bowhunter has taught me time and time again that the shot I am looking for is a pssthrough both lungs or heart. The lowest chance of screwing this up comes when the animal turns. Obviously hes going to turn at some point. My patience would make or break this hunt. In your case it broke it and theres no foul there. However had you drilled that nice bull and not recovered him, youd be sick right now and possible aim to some serious mudslinging.

One more thing on this and I will shut up. Keep in mind if he moves just slightly either way (less than 3 inches) youre not hitting heart, likely going to give him a single lung wounding or an arrow in the guts. Not the respect full shot you really want to dish out to an animal IMO.

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Food for thought....

Columnists : BowTech Bowhunting Tips Last Updated: Jun 20th, 2006 - 17:03:41

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Frontal Shot
By Scott Haugen
May 25, 2006, 00:15
Email this article
Printer friendly page

Sponsored By BowTech Archery

Visit the web site of Scott Haugen
I’ve heard it by many hunters over the years, “Never take a frontal shot on a big game animal with bow and arrow.” This is a shot most archers, even veterans, shy away from, and I often find myself asking why. If you know your equipment, the anatomy of the animals you’re hunting, and more importantly, their behavior under any given situation, then you’ll understand why a frontal shot can be effective.

The author depended on a frontal shot to drop this bull.

My last frontal shot came on an African lion. It was bedded, facing me, at 42 yards. The cat had not yet seen me, and my intent was to use the wind and sneak around for a side shot when it stood. Several factors prevented me from reaching this point, which is when I consider taking a frontal shot.

At first I couldn’t get a shot due to tall grass, but I repositioned myself and when the cat stretched out it’s neck, a window opened. Quickly I reached full draw and seemingly in one motion my BowTech Allegiance sent a broadhead under the cat’s chin. The arrow ran the full length of the body and exited near the tail, destroying the atrium and piercing the lungs. It was the perfect angle and the situation was right. The cat went eight yards and died, and we captured it all on film.

On one of my best Rocky Mountain elk, the bull came running to the call. When I saw small tree tops swaying, I reached full draw, and held. When the bull broke from the trees he stopped, looking for the source of the sounds. There was no wind, the sun was in the bull’s face and he was obviously not aware of what I was. He stood facing me, and at 24 yards, I put the arrow right in his throat.

The vanes disappeared into his deep chocolate mane. He went 40 yards and collapsed. When field dressing him, I found the broadhead in his pelvis. On the elk, lion and all other animals I’ve taken with a frontal shot, the blood trail has been immense. Never have I missed a frontal shot, nor had an animal turn on me upon release. This is not a bragging point, rather an example of how the frontal shot can be highly effective when selectively taken.

The key to making a frontal kill shot is being able to hit a small target, under pressure. If you shake at making a lung shot on a broadside animal, then a frontal shot is likely not in the cards. However, if you’re drilling animals and have the confidence you can hit a small kill zone, then no longer will a facing animal at close range walk away from you.

I’ve heard numerous stories of archers who have let big bulls and bucks walk away, despite the fact they were within 15 yards, staring at a hunter who was at full draw. This is where knowing an animal’s anatomy is crucial. Where the windpipe goes into the body, there is a soft window of tissues which are great for a broadhead. Avoid shooting too low, beneath the windpipe, as this is where bone and cartilage become a factor.

I use the bottom of the windpipe as a reference to the lowest point at which I’ll take a frontal shot, and a few inches above the base of the windpipe as the highest. Above the windpipe there is a narrow margin of neck muscle you can shoot through, prior to hitting the spine. This gives you a shot window of about five inches high by four inches wide on elk, a bit smaller on deer. If this window is not within your comfort zone, then the frontal shot is not an option.

Another factor to consider when evaluating a frontal shot is body position. Ideally, the animal will be on level ground, where an imaginary line can be drawn all the way from the throat to the anus, or at the highest point, the base of the tail. If the animal is below me, where I’m looking at the arrow to exit out the stomach, I won’t take the shot. This is because the target entry spot, beneath the throat, is quite small, not because the arrow won’t pass through the vitals.

Distance is another key to consider. I won’t take a frontal shot beyond 30 yards, simply due to personal preference, but this decision also depends on two other factors. First, I don’t want to risk an animal jumping the string or seeing me move, then flee; the closer they are the better. Second, because an animal is facing me, it’s likely already on alert (unless I’m sitting on the same trail it’s walking up), and this means a quick evaluation of it’s next move.

After considering wind, distance, light and angle of the animal, predicting its behavior is the last item on my checklist as to whether or not I’m going to take a frontal shot. This comes from years of hunting experience, and observing how animals behave, both disturbed and at ease. If I sense an animal is on edge, I won’t take the shot. If I’m confident I can send a speeding arrow into the kill zone when an animal is facing me, I won’t hesitate.

The more time you spend in the woods, the more animal encounters you’ll have, the more familiar you’ll become with their behaviors. Combine this with educating yourself on the anatomy of your quarry and honing your shooting ability, and the odds of connecting on the frontal shot greatly increase. But one factor you can control that will help make that frontal shot is a fast-shooting bow, one you know will get the arrow to the sweet-spot before the animal has a chance to move.

Offline
Location: Boulder. A.K.A Hell
Joined: 06/21/2006
Posts: 34
Would you??

i did not read all the replys but... outdoor life had a great article on frontal shots and how good a chance it is. but its all about how you feel at that yardage. good luck.

Offline
Joined: 07/03/2006
Posts: 232
Would you??

I got something serious to say about this article. I dont take any "I aint buying it" issues with anything the man has said except for the part about string jumping. Its been my experience that the closer the animal is the worse the reaction to the bow. Animals calm at thirty yards are far more like to freeze on the sound of the bow going off whereas one at ten will turn himself inside out trying to dodge the immediate and close danger. His reflection of the whys and hows of the decision not to take the shot past 30 yards leaves me very very suspect of his actual experience in the field.

So what do I got to say thats so serious?

I have been bowhunting for years and killed many many animals with my bows and arrows. I have witnessed over and over again mother nature win out when it comes to Murphys law. If its going to go wrong its going to go wrong in her favor. This shot has such a high amount of what ifs, and could happens, that it makes it a no shot. No one says pumping an arrow in the chest of an animal wont kill it. No, what they say is a lot can go wrong in the process of taking that shot and leave wounded game and head in their hands hunters out there. its not a high percentage shot simple as that.

The fact that major publications are putting the suggestion in your head that the next time your out there you might want to give it a go, tells me a few things.

The editors have come to a point they no longer feel that making a clean confident shot on big game is as important as was once taught.

They feel the public's general ethic has cooled enough to suggest it today. In other words they think far less of your field ethics than they once did.

Its far more important to get that bull than come home empty handed despite the fact that the experience is still as incredible as ever if you dont shoot.

They are running out of things to talk about that interest their readers. 20 years ago they would have thrown this author out on his butt.

Furthermore this magazine and writer have just sealed the fate of hundreds of bulls this year. They have resigned them to close calls with hunters that they escape with woundings and a new found education about hunters.

When Outfoor Life or any major publication goes to changing the rules to sell a magazine, they ought to be removed from the privilage of being in my magazine rack. For the record they made that distinction years ago. Sending the average Joe out the door ready to steady up, read the animals behaivor, and take a crack at that frontal shot is not only irresponsible teaching , but cries of the losing art and pride that used to come with being a bowhunter.

Bottom line the guy says this is a shot with lots of considerations. In other words its not a shot for a beginner or semi skilled woodsman to take. While I can say I have all the skills required to make a solid decision on taking that shot, I still got to say I wouldnt. The animal is going to turn or walk past you, patience is a bowhunters best friend. The broadside will come open more than likely if he hasnt seen you. If not , so be it, he wins today becuase your archery hunting and thats what ethical archers wait for IMO.

I could sling arrows all over the woods rolling the dice each time, personally I choose to kill the animals I shoot at and If I am at full draw with even an ounce of indecision, that arrow doesnt fly. This article has just erased that indecision for litterally thousands of hunters that really dont have a clue as to what all the rules of taking it are.

You'll see them boys on long blood trails scratching their heads this season saying,"I dont know what happened, I hit him just like the article said."

As the years go by ,I find more and more than not everyone should be a hunter. They simply miss the boat when it comes to the respect and privilage it is to be able to recreationally participate in mother nature.