46 replies [Last post]
Offline
Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
Wolves important to the ecosystem?

A report from someone on the ground is worth more than ALL THE THEORIZING by people far away. I'd like to see some pics from `clearwaterart'.

Offline
Location: Lewiston ID
Joined: 04/27/2005
Posts: 61
Wolves important to the ecosystem?

found some of the kill pics.


The two pics above are taken not long after the kill, the internals were intact most all of the kills we went to had damage to one or both hind legs and usually one of the front legs. Cougar kills will have claw marks on the upper rump, torso, neck and the bite marks to the back of the skull. We didn't find any cougar elk kills but we did find one deer. Notice all of th tracks around the elk and how much of the elk is still intack.


the two picks above show an elk that was not there on the feb 8th. We found the all the tracks on the way out on feb 10th. The bottum of the two pics shows all the "traffic" tracks around the dead elk, wolves mark every thing around the area of a kill. cougars bury their kills.

this one was to old to give any clues but it was not burried and on 5 feet off the trial. I have more pics I will try to find them.

Offline
Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
Wolves important to the ecosystem?

Thanks for posting the pics (I think).

We hunted MF Salmon a couple years ago for bighorn sheep ... it was like the surface of the moon for wildlife. And our experience was mirrored by others. We did get into sheep, however. Interestingly, the cougars were after the sheep (also mirrored by others) ... guess they ran out of elk and deer.

Offline
Location: Lewiston ID
Joined: 04/27/2005
Posts: 61
Wolves important to the ecosystem?

Serious hunter, I am not sure what you mean by (I think), I was hesitant about posting any of these pics becuase most of us hunter enjoy the animals. Yes we hunt them and kill them but we think of that differently. I am not saying cougars don't due damage to. I hunt them and as soon as I can hunt wolf I will.

Offline
Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
Wolves important to the ecosystem?
clearwaterart wrote:
Serious hunter, I am not sure what you mean by (I think), I was hesitant about posting any of these pics becuase most of us hunter enjoy the animals ... snip ...

... because they (the pics) are kind of both sad and gruesome. I would hope that the wolves utilize at least as much of the animal as I do - but, alas, I kill for food ... they are programmed for opportunity. Some day ... let's put in for a controlled wolf hunt (when legal, of course).

Offline
Location: Pennsylvania
Joined: 10/28/2003
Posts: 1647
Wolves important to the ecosystem?

I just returned from unit 28 and while speaking to one of the guides on the trip about wolves I learned what wolf habitat looks like (when we drove passed it on the way out of camp) and what elk habitat used to look like (because now they are gone). The man told me he knows the cowboys that ride through some of these areas and they say there isn't an elk track to be found. He also told me the hunting in this area used to be great. sad

Offline
Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
Posts: 144
Wolves important to the ecosystem?

Wolves kill for food too. They just do it differently. I'm sick of people seeing one thing happen in an area or a state or a season and making up their mind about this topic. Wolves kill more big game in winter because they are easier to catch. Not nearly as many get killed in the summer. I also get sick of hunters pissing and moaning about all the game being gone. Maybe you should complain about the real reducer of game population-habitat loss to development. Maybe if people weren't building in their wintering grounds the elk would have somewhere to hide. The elk will bounce back from a new predator in the area(wolves) but may never bounce back from the population explosion.

All that said, are wolves of the west in need of sound management?-hell yes! Quit yer bellyaching about how all wolves should be removed (NIMBY) and call your legislators and tell them to get to work on cleaning up the Endangered Species Act so animals like wolves can be managed more sanely and efficiently when they are "recovering". That's why parts of the west are being overtaken by wolves. Not because they are "wonton killers".

And for all you that think I'm just another outsider telling you how to manage your area, don't forget the biggest population of wolves this side of Canada(3000 in an area smaller than your 600) is right in MY backyard. I think I might know what is going on.

Me stepping off my soapbox.

Offline
Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
Wolves important to the ecosystem?
stillhunter wrote:
... The elk will bounce back from a new predator in the area(wolves) but may never bounce back from the population explosion.

... snip ...

And for all you that think I'm just another outsider telling you how to manage your area, don't forget the biggest population of wolves this side of Canada(3000 in an area smaller than your 600) is right in MY backyard. I think I might know what is going on.

Me stepping off my soapbox.

Stillhunter - tell us how elk have bounced back in your area with predator introduction.

Much of the terrain in Idaho will NEVER be developed because it is too steep. The areas where the elk have been decimated is of the most `wildernessy' in the US, and includes designated Wilderness.

Interestingly, I can drive just past civilization where I live - and get into elk. But the wilderness is vacant (of elk). What's up with that!?

What's troubling is that the wolves are also now showing up next to civilization.

Give us your Minnesota story - and maybe it will offer some encouragement.

Offline
Location: CR, CO
Joined: 05/20/2006
Posts: 7
Wolves in Colorado

Great topic, one that needs to be discussed and vetted. I am one of the wouldn't mind them, but don't need em' crowd. I have some friend in the Estes area, the DOW is planning to kill a few hundred elk over the course of the next three years because of overpopulation. I think to answer the question specific to Colorado, I believe yes. Our cattle industry is mostly plains based, so the effect on that industry won't be as great as in say, Montana, Wyo and other places. It will help the immediate problem in overpopulated areas of the state. However, I completely agree that the feds ought to leave the control up to the states. It's coming, they are coming and the state needs to be talking to hunters, ranchers and citizens about this impact! No easy answers on this one. One thing that might not allow the wolves to prosper here like the other states, density of population. We might not have very widespread population; don't know. Any way, my somewhat uneducated rant.

boone

Offline
Location: Idaho
Joined: 02/28/2006
Posts: 162
Wolves important to the ecosystem?

Stillhunter, we had proper wolf management in Idaho until the mid 90's. there were a few wolves native to this area that did fairly well, They were not Canadian wolves which are bigger and more agressive, but tell that to Clinton. We really don't care about Minnasota out here. You don't even have any elk so SHUT UP about how you know all about wolves inpact on elk populations. Idaho has been managing elk for decades to make the populations decent and some units have been decimated by huge population booms of wolves, not by development. Maybe you have no concept of the wilderness areas in Idaho out there in Minn. but they are huge and will never be developed. Development plays a very small role in Idaho's elk populations. It all comes down to calf survival which in some units is becoming non existant. I know wolves are nolstagic and all you flatlanders really love the thought of a wolf howling at the moon out here in Idaho, but they are doing real damage and need some proper 150 grain managment.
Hank

Related Forum Threads You Might Like