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Location: Utah
Joined: 02/24/2003
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the wolf now big game animal in idaho
swollen tongue wrote:
rather be,
cougers and bears in Colorado have hunting seasons on them, which keeps them in check and do not fall in the "serial killer" catagory.

This is the point. The wolves are predators and just doing what predators do. The problem is with the regulation of them, not the wolves fault by the way. We have two issues here and you are trying to make them into one issue. Remember the whole reason they were ever protected in the first place is because we killed every damn one of them we saw.

#1. Are wolves evil and do wolves kill everything in sight and should be extinct? NO! Wolves are no defferent than any other predator. They kill what they need to consume. They are smaller than a bear and common sense says a wolf will consume less than a bear. Wolves contrary to the opinion of some are just normal predators. They can be controlled, managed and we can co-exist with them. I am actually very surprised to see outdoorsmen not take this view.

#2. Are wolves being regulated correctly? Once again NO! Wolves should not be completely protected, we should have hunting seasons and ranchers should have the right to shoot on site if one is caught killing livestock. We should have a management plan in place so they do not have a major effect on other species and thier numbers limited.

Regulation is not the wolves fault. Calling them serial killers suggests they are evil and they kill for fun. This simply is not true. If they really are having a devistating effect on populations, every article I read says they are not, then we need to attack politicians. We need to attack our governments policy on wolves. Not the wolves themselves. Otherwise we are just a barbaric lynch mob blaming the wolves for our governments idiocracy.

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Location: Powderhorn, Colorado
Joined: 04/07/2003
Posts: 167
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

Hard to beleive but the State of Colorado still has a bounty on wolves. Below the interstate 70 line, is the "endangered" areas and you can't touch them.
. Above interstate 70 they are classified as "theatened" and you can touch them.
A cinero would be you could kill a wolf, collect the bounty with one hand by the state, and get handcuffed with your other hand by the U.S fish and wildlife service.
I don't think I would try to touch them though.
If everybody wants wolves, thats fine with me. I am easy to get along with.
lol lol lol

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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
Posts: 144
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

The state may still have a bounty but the Endangered Species Act has precedent. It would be illegal to kill a wolf anywhere in the state. Have a look at these articles, the first one is about a year old, but it gives some background anyway. The other link is the DOW website that talks about the wolf management plan. Sounds like they are taking the right steps.

wolf in colorado

CO DOW wolf plan

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the wolf now big game animal in idaho
swollen tongue wrote:
There was 18,000 head of elk in yellowstone park before the introduction of the wolf, now there is 12,000. This is confirmed from the park service.

In wolf conversations, this stastic always gets thrown out, but I have never been able to find confirmation of these numbers. I posted my thoughts on it and some links to real elk head counts in yellowstone back in this blast-from-the-past flamebait thread.

Stillhunter,

That was a good link. I think Bob Fanning needs a rabies test, I think the dude is foaming at the mouth.

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Location: Powderhorn, Colorado
Joined: 04/07/2003
Posts: 167
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

I have no inkling in shooting a wolf. No more than a bear or cougar, unless they are killing livestock or threatening a person. What i am saying is there is no habitat left in colorado for the wolf to live the way they should, without getting into trouble with populations of people and livestock.
Why create another problem or incident with this stupid idea. eye roll eye roll

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Location: Missouri
Joined: 02/14/2004
Posts: 62
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

Not to change the subject here but,,,,I have a question,,,,My understanding is Colorado has no Wildlife damage control methods in place for the public? No trapping at all. Have they come up with some Damage Biologists or Agents that can "trap" or "kill" animals that cause damage? If this isn't the case? How would they control the wolf population if they were introduced and prosper like in other western states?

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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
Posts: 144
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

First, they woudln't necessarily have to be "introduced". There are becoming enough wolves in the west that they would probably just disperse into areas like Colorado. In that case, the Feds would have to either start the trapping process themselves, or just hand it off to the state. One thing to keep in mind though is that this is all pretty new, as far as having reintroduced an animal that many people don't like, and one that ranges so far. The status of the wolf could have many different levels throughout the country, meaning, it could be considered endangered, threatened, or "recovered" in different areas, thus getting different treament in different areas. If/when the Feds say that the wolf is indeed "delisted", and the populations in the areas like the Great Lakes and Northern Rockies are enough to consider them fully recovered, that would give all other states the opportunity to manage them as they see fit. Remember, though that the ESA is a complicated law, and there are always going to be groups that are willing to sue if they don't like what the Feds are doing.

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the wolf now big game animal in idaho

Stillhunter is correct, the wolf was not re-introduced in Colorado, they migrated here on their own. Its assumed that these wolves have come down across Wyoming from Yellowstone.

Ferguson, Colorado has always had government trappers, so even though trapping is outlawed for the general public, government trappers still trap/kill problem animals. The trouble is, if an animal is live trapped, then its usually ear tagged or collared and transplanted into farming/ranching communities, and invariably will harass & kill livestock. And yes ranchers do get reimbursed for damage to their livestock.

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Location: Idaho
Joined: 09/20/2003
Posts: 138
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

ahhhhhhhhhh now see we are now getting some truth as to who is saying what and as well as why. these folks seem to be looking for the middle ground .
Wolf plan pros, cons
Ranchers, outfitters, environmentalists share views on new management rules

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gregory Hahn
The Idaho Statesman
Ranchers and outfitters support a plan to make it easier to kill wolves who harass or attack game, livestock and pets.
Some environmental groups say the change will invite abuse and unnecessary killing. But others, including the Nez Perce Tribe that has been managing the wolves for almost a decade, have objections to just parts of the plan.
The positions came at a U.S. Fish and Wildlife hearing on the proposed changes. Nineteen people testified in the afternoon and about 50 attended an evening session. Most of the testimony reflected concessions from both sides — ranchers and outfitters acknowledging that the wolves are here to stay, and conservationists agreeing that changes like the ones in this proposal must come as the wolves become a stable part of the Idaho wilderness.
The federal government has signed off on a plan that gives Idaho more control over the management of wolves. The plan to take effect this summer:
Æ The changes: Wolves could be killed if they harass livestock or pets, or if they’re in an area where elk, deer, moose or bighorn sheep are not meeting population goals (whether or not that can be attributed to the wolves).
Æ Who can kill the wolves: Almost anyone, including state officials, ranchers and pet owners — if they can prove a reason.
Æ Who’s in charge: It’s still the feds, until Wyoming writes an approved wolf management plan. Then, Wyoming, Idaho and Montana can take over wolf management from the Department of Interior.

Cody Allred, Garden Valley outfitter: Allred grew up in an outfitting family and has been a full-time guide for a couple of years. He said the health of elk herds and rural communities that benefit from small outfitters and guides needs to be balanced with the wolves. Like the other outfitters and ranchers, he called for more state oversight in wolf management.

Eileen Thuesen, Boise resident: She said people should be able to defend their property through “appropriate means,” but this change goes too far. “It’s much too broad and effectively amounts to open season on wolves.”

Jennifer Ellis, a Blackfoot rancher and member of the Idaho Cattle Association: Ellis called the change a “common sense solution” after “the right to protect our private property rights has been trampled on.” She and other ranchers said the ability to kill wolves will help ranchers coexist with the packs — and keep the packs in the wilderness. “Wolves will be forced to be made wild again,” she said. “They’ll have some respect.”

Anthony Johnson, chairman of the Nez Perce Tribe: The tribe agrees that property owners need to be able to protect their animals and called the change a “good interim step toward delisting” the wolves from the Endangered Species Act. But a clause to allow wolves to be killed when game herds don’t meet population goals is an “overly simplified solution to a complex problem.” Johnson wanted more specific references to tribal powers in the proposal.

Suzanne Stone, Rocky Mountain field representative for the Defenders of Wildlife: Stone’s environmental group, which pays ranchers for animals killed by wolves and also for non-lethal wolf control techniques, said the group was “highly disappointed” in many aspects of the change. The plan would “invite abuse and unnecessary killing of wolves,” and should better include the tribe’s role and emphasize non-lethal ways to manage the wolves.

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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
Posts: 144
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

I tend to agree with the Nez Perce tribes assessment. Big game populations have many more factors to contend with than just the wolves. Everything else seems pretty much like it should be.

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