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Location: Idaho
Joined: 09/20/2003
Posts: 138
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

Rather_ be.

There have been wolves here in Idaho for as long as I can recall.
The fish game said there wasn’t but us long timers know different. Even ranches and cattleman would see them, kind of like seeing a ghost. Once in a while someone would shoot one, and get their face in the local paper.
News flash grizzlies are here to, not many but now and then if you’re lucky you see one.
However we do not have the room or need for a large population of either.

What really burns me the most is not that they are here but that we “ we being residents” are force to take one the responsibilities of this reintroduction against our will.
We voted on this and overwhelmingly we said NO! Yet out side interests prevailed and now they are back in numbers., numbers we don’t want.

I say that those who forced this issue should first have them planted in their back yards before anyone else’s.

What you say about the elk herds I also believe to be true. The herd will adapt just as the have adapted to human populations and the hunting season.
The only way you cannot accept humans as a competitive species it to remove us from the cycle and food chain. Our brains keep us safe with out it we would be very week indeed; it is out claws, our fangs. It makes up for bad hearing and eyesight low sense of smell.

Yes generations past may have over hunted and did in many cases un reversible damage , lets remember though that they also started us down the path we are on today so there is credit to be given .

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the wolf now big game animal in idaho

If there is no place in the wild for big predators, other than man, then the wild is no longer wild and is just an extension of the docile world we call our backyard.

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Location: Idaho
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the wolf now big game animal in idaho

True so if we look into the future what will we see?
Maybe a country as densely populated as Europe or about the same.

I would hope that places like Alaska and most of Canada and even South America could resist the population and keep some wild places wild.

Yes we have some very big wild places here in the west as well . But the problem lies that the large predators ,just as with us human predators, have ranges that are equally as large, as their populations grow their ranges grow , When the range cannot support the population there is trouble, un sound management if you like, conflict.
We have seen this with the lion in California , we are starting to see it here in Idaho as their range or ours moves into areas occupied .
If we are to make situations like the wolf reintroduction work it must be in places where they will have adequate area to expand and grow. Other wise what we will have is nothing more then a poor imitation

Doesn’t it boil down to a situation where
Their Populations must be controlled , our development must be controlled for the benefit of all or there will come a time when there will be no place for big game or even folks like you and i

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Location: Wa.
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the wolf now big game animal in idaho

We're being given a chance to to learn to live with the wolves instead of fearing them. Why don't we take the opportunity and go with it?

The wolfs as were the buffalo were not randomly slaughtered. They had bounties placed on them by people who either feared them or had personal gain. There were some that were killed because they, meaning that particular animal or pack, had killed someones livestock to feed their group. All in all the Idea of introducing wolf into an area is an opportunity. They are a part of the circle of life. If we, meaning humans, could learn to use our brains as other animals use their instincts and quit fearing everything we don't understand. Maybe, just maybe we could get along with the rest of the planet.

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Location: Idaho
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Posts: 138
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

You hit it right on the head.
We have to use our brains not our harts.
The question then becomes who’s brain do we use.

The Ranchers who loose live stock / lively hood then gets to spend the next months proving it just to reimbursed but nothing for time and labor?

Maybe the state taxpayer in the places they are being forced to deal with them and pay those reimbursements and enforcement costs.

How about the scientist who points out there isn’t adequate area to support more the 5 packs? What do you then do with the rest as the multiply?

Or maybe the enviro crowed who seems to want to reintroduce these species in any area, while not supporting them in any way but to fund their enviro movements. Never mind the outcry from them when fluffy becomes lunch or bambi gets killed in their back yard with little Johnny and sues watching the realities or true nature.

I seem to recall this same discussion with PETA concerning elk habitat in Jackson Hole. They will gladly spend millions trying to stop hunting but when it comes to supporting habitat or the very wildlife the pay to see.
They can’t be bothered.

or maybe we just should have the brains to look at the species themselves and what they need to be who they are , without being inside a cage of fence even if its one drawn on a map Wink

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the wolf now big game animal in idaho

I'm interested in seeing how this turns out.

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Location: Missouri
Joined: 02/14/2004
Posts: 62
the wolf now big game animal in idaho

Humans can not go back in time. No matter how bad they want to. Times change as so does the world and it's inhabitants. Human beings will self destruct someday just like any other wildlife. This world is only so big and can only handle so much. Free ranging wildlife like in the 1700's in North America will never be again untill the population of hunmans have decreased. Kinda like rabbits and coyotes, when one of the populations are high the other is low. When there is big numbers of wolves then the number of coyotes are down. Even predators compete and control each other. Just as Humans and Wolves conflict. There is not room for everythying. If you want the natural events of "NATURE" to play out then look at the big picture. You just can't take the human population factor out. That is what some are trying to do. We want to have it all but not in "my back yard" is not right. Kinda like the Kalifornians and mountain lions. They protected them at all costs and now when their "little fluffy" gets eat it's not so fun and hits a little closer. I think the local residents should have as much input to reintroduction of wildlife as people in the far off places. If the feds want them in Yellowstone and other places then that's fine but as soon as they get in "your back yard" you should be able to take care of the problem. It's a shame it's not that way?

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the wolf now big game animal in idaho
captchee wrote:
True so if we look into the future what will we see?
Maybe a country as densely populated as Europe or about the same.

Their Populations must be controlled , our development must be controlled for the benefit of all or there will come a time when there will be no place for big game or even folks like you and i

That is what it boils down to. You get two choices:

-> Controlled/capped human population growth and preservation of some wild places.

OR

-> Unbounded (other than a malthusian limit) human population growth and virtually no wild places.

The choice is ours, time will tell what we decide. Problem is we have pretty much already made the decision unwittingly. I.E. the great plains eco system is gone along with the great forest eco systems of the midwest. Am I saying that we should try to "dam up" the flow of species? Nope, we couldn't even if we tried, but we can try to limit the environmental impact of 6 billion hungry mouths and pooping butts.

Of course, the choice is not completely 100% ours as some have said. A unfortunately placed asteroid path (or a serious estimation error in the time the sun will go red giant) could quickly show us all that even the "king of beasts" can be laid low. Got to be careful here, because one can't ponder the ebe-and-flow of species w/o pondering the meaning of life. Wink

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Location: NE Minnesota
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the wolf now big game animal in idaho

I'm glad to see so many others getting involved in this discussion. And after reading the last few posts it seems like many of us have the same general opinion. Of course we are going to disagree on some of the fine points-but that is what discussion is for. I agree with those that say these issues shouldn't be rammed down their throats, but one thing I would ask is to keep an open mind when discussing these issues. Don't let past prejudices keep you from having a clear head. I struggle with this all the time. Our forefathers did many good things and had many good words to live by, but they made mistakes too. We all do. Let's try and learn from those mistakes instead of repeating them.

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Location: Missouri
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the wolf now big game animal in idaho

StillHunter,,,,,,you might have some sense about you.

I'm not so sure yet,,,, but there is hope!

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