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Topgun 30-06's picture
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You seem to really

You seem to really be stretching things now with the use of the word "extortion" when that is far from the case!  Telling a company you won't buy their products because they have donated to a person whom you don't support is not extortion.  They have not done anything other than that in the letter and that certainly isn't extortion!  Have you never written a company that you disagreed with because they support PETA, The Humane Society, etc. that want to ban all forms of hunting and told them you would discontinue buying their products?  If you haven't, you are probably in a minority, so in your view any of us that have done so is an extortionist, LOL!  Come on, you obviously despise unions and are usingthose negative feelings to try and come up with anything you can to cast these people in a negative vein.  That last link on that union guy is a good example where you now seem to be casting these teachers and others as thugs, etc.  When they start using physical violence, I have said that they should be thrown in jail.  Until then when no laws have been violated, and I don't believe noisy picketing is a violation of law, they can do their thing to try and get their point across.  Lastly, it is my understanding that the teachers involved in this disruption, which is what I will call it, have offered major concessions and this whole thing has basically been brought on by Walker refusing to even talk with them and is out  to bust the union!  True or false, and if you respond I would appreciate nonbiased information to contradict that statement?

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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Posts: 3207
Wisconsin

Let's examine what you just said, Topgun.

You don't think it's extortion, and  you don't think it's any different from me writing to a company complaining about a stance it took.  Imagine being a small businessman watching the hostile union mobs around the capitol threatening lawmakers.  You may or may not have even taken a position on the matter...much less said anything about it.  And then you get the letter...saying that if you don't toe the line and support their politics, you're going to be "publicly and formally" boycotted.  By who?  Police, firemen, sheriffs, etc.  That's hardly the same as getting a letter from a customer who says he won't buy your widget anymore.

Maybe you don't call it extortion when someone tells you that you need to get on board with a political position or incur the wrath of law enforcement and the fire department.  But where I come from, that's a threat...and a disturbing one at that.  We're not talking about losing sales, here...we're talking about police and fire protection.  Sure, the letter stated "goods and services".  But the unstated message is if I don't support a political position, I'll be on the s**t list of the public servants that I pay my tax dollars to support, and for which I rely on for my protection.  Not only is that a threat, but it disturbingly insults the honor of police and firefighters by insinuating that their support is contingent on your politics.  If I say "no" and call for help, am I going to be subject to some variant of the "blue flu?"

I ask again: Is your position so morally and intellectually deficient that you have to resort to coercion to secure support?

By your yardstick, it was OK for Hollywood to blacklist writers, directors, and actors in the 50s, right?  After all, they were just refusing to support someone that disagrees with them.

Similarly, by your standard the Klan wasn't intimidating people by burning crosses in their yards, since they weren't committing an actual act of violence.

And by the way, your Alinsky is showing.  It's a classic tactic to try to blow people off by claiming they had some sort of personal axe to grind in an attempt to negate anything they say.  If I thought the unions had the moral high ground on this issue, I'd be supporting them.  Another classic tactic is to claim that all of the information an opponent presents is "biased."  Let me guess...the only "unbiased" information is information that agrees with your position, right?

How is it "biased" to report facts about Richard Trumka?  The information in the fact sheet even has references cited.  Facts aren't biased.  If Trumka is on record as telling his union members to "kick the (expletive) out of every last one of 'em," does it make a difference who references the quote?  Instead of complaining about "bias", how about addressing the facts raised?

And in case you didn't notice, the teacher's unions fall under the AFL-CIO's umbrella.  And Trumka has been to Madison and is heavily engaged on the Wisconsin debate.

Topgun 30-06's picture
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Location: Allegan, MI
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You sure are good at telling

You sure are good at telling what everybody is thinking and doing when you don't know me from a can of paint!  Your second paragraph stating the police and fire personnel won't perform their jobs when it comes to that company is a friggin joke and certainly is just an insinuation and mere speculation on your part that is not correct IMHO!  Then in your long winded post you have a bunch of BS about Hollywood, the Klan, and all that other crap that you say you guess I have no problem with.  Sir, that is an insult to my intelligence and this is the last I will be involved with this thread because you don't know what the H*** you're talking about when you start accusing me of stuff like you just did in that post!  Incidentally, by not answering my simple question to you about concessions these people were willing to agree with before you started all that BS in your post also tells me you don't know much about what you are talking about on this subject!  ADIOS Mr. Expert!!!

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Wisconsin

My point is that you can't claim the moral high ground through immoral methods.  People can say what they want about the governor's actions, but at least he's employing the democratic principles our country was founded on in order top pursue what he believes is the will of the people.  What is his opposition doing?  Their senators abandoned their posts and ran across the border to Illinois.  They sent hostile mobs to besiege the capitol.  And now they're using coercion against businesses.

So now they have the nerve to accuse the Republicans of abandoning democracy?  For what...using the majority that the voters gave them? Given the tactics the Left is employing, what version of "democracy" do they envision for America, since it apparently doesn't involve the legislative process?

Sorry I've offended you, Topgun, but I don't consider mob rule to be a suitable substitute for democracy.  We've been through far worse and invested too much blood and sweat over the past 225 years to abandon it now over this issue.

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hummmm

expatriate wrote:

Sorry I've offended you, Topgun

 

I think it was something you said, ex.

Ca_Vermonster's picture
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I would put statement like

I would put statement like this in line with "extortion", or at least threats. Whistling

"The talks will encompass labor agreements with the Big Three automakers, but Ford's impressive profits may make the company a target for union representatives looking for a bigger share of the wealth. Union members also have more leverage with Ford, since Ford workers did not agree to the no-strike clause approved by employees at General Motors and Chrysler. 

Bill Johnson, who represents workers at a Ford plant in Wayne, Mich., told the Detroit Free Press that if Ford does not restore "everything" to the union, "the membership is going to knock it down." "

 

cowgal's picture
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Ford company

Ca_Vermonster wrote:

Bill Johnson, who represents workers at a Ford plant in Wayne, Mich., told the Detroit Free Press that if Ford does not restore "everything" to the union, "the membership is going to knock it down." " 

Certainly sounds like extortion to me! That's great, take a company that survived Detroit's implosion and destroy it as well. Must be the new mob (oops American!) way of getting your way. And we wonder why manufacturers take their business out of our country?

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