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jaybe's picture
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Wisconsin Decision on Collective Bargaining is Having a Ripple Effect

The final vote by the Wisconsin Assembly will have a ripple effect across the counry. Idaho, Iowa and Ohio are already following suit and are in the process of passing various measures to limit the collective bargaining rights of public unions.

IMO I see this as a good thing for the taxpayers. With only 7-8% of the people in the country being union members, they are basically forcing the other 92% to pay them higher wages and benefits than the average taxpayer.

 

Topgun 30-06's picture
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And just how are they

And just how are they "forcing" the other 92% to pay them higher wages and benefits than the average taxpayer?  They are bargaining, hopefully in good faith, with the employer who is representing the taxpayers.  They aren't putting a gun to the head of anybody for Pete's sake!  If the employer representing the taxpayers grants what they are asking for and signs the contract after the bargaining takes place, how can you then blame the employees for "forcing" those benefits on anybody?  If it can't be afforded, then start blaming the side that granted what was asked for, not the employees!!!

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you may be mistaken

Top Gun 30-06 wrote:

  .............They aren't putting a gun to the head of anybody for Pete's sake! ........

 

Don't pay your taxes and ignore all attempts to have them collected and I can guarantee you that the men/women who come for you WILL have guns and WILL use them if you resist.

expatriate's picture
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Wisconsin Decision

Topgun...are you watching the news at all?  Look at the mobs in Madison...yelling, threatening, and intimidating.  Now legislators are getting death threats.  Live ammo has been found on the scene.  And then there's the Democrats that abandoned their posts and ran to Illinois -- pinning their hopes on mob rule, rather than partaking in the democratic process they were elected to take part in.  These people are all about force and coercion.

And speaking of force and coercion, how about laws that require employees to join the union as part of their job?  

Topgun 30-06's picture
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Yep, I've seen them in the

Yep, I've seen them in the rotunda on one newscast last week and haven't looked at anything about it since!  When he said "they" and I responded to his post I was referring to public employees in general and not the zoo that's taking place in WI right now!  Seeing as I'm not involved in it, I haven't looked into all that's going on, but I can tell you that the way we got screwed many times over the years as a MI employee that I can understand why they are pissed.  I had countless unpaid days off or worked for free for more than a day or two in my 30+ year career and we were under "binding" contracts the whole time!  It was either do it or find another job and I loved my job and bit the bullet.  Those people are probably going to find out that they will either have to do the same thing or go dig ditches!!!  I also spoke to the BS about being forced to join and/or pay union dues in the other thread!

expatriate's picture
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Wisconsin

More from the force and intimidation department:

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/charliesykes/117764004.html?blog=y

Topgun 30-06's picture
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JTapia---What in the world

JTapia---What in the world does your post regarding people not paying their taxes and having the IRS of the Federal Government enforce the tax code have to do with what we are talking about?

expatriate---I fail to see any big problem with the letter you posted in your link where that group is telling a company that was a big contributor to Walker that they would not purchase products produced or distributed by that company.  That is done by citizens all over this country every day individually and/or in groups when a company is found doing something citizens don't agree with because the only way you can get the message across peacefully is hitting them in the pocketbook.  There sure isn't anything illegal or unethical in doing that and it's a far cry from years ago when the Teamsters used all kinds of physical violence againts persons and/or their property who disagreed with their stance in union contract negotiations!!!    We also practice peaceful protests all the time when we write our politicians and tell them our views and that they will not receive our reelection votes if they continue in a course contrary to what their consituents want. 

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Gun to your head = being forced

Top Gun 30-06 wrote:

JTapi---What in the world does your post regarding people not paying their taxes and having the IRS of the Federal Government enforce the tax code have to do with what we are talking about?

 

Top Gun 30-06 wrote:

And just how are they "forcing" the other 92% to pay them higher wages and benefits than the average taxpayer?  They are bargaining, hopefully in good faith, with the employer who is representing the taxpayers.  They aren't putting a gun to the head of anybody for Pete's sake!  If the employer representing the taxpayers grants what they are asking for and signs the contract after the bargaining takes place, how can you then blame the employees for "forcing" those benefits on anybody

Who do you think pays the Public Employee Union members salaries and benefits? Taxpayers do that's who. If a taxpayer dosen't like where their tax dollars are spent can they just refuse to pay their taxes?  No they can not. Why?... see my previous post, thats why.Taxpayers who voted this Governor into office did so because this is what he said he was gonna do if they did.

They, taxpayers, are essentially being forced to pay for these benefits that were agreed to not by someone who represented them but rather by someone who was paid huge campaign contributions by the very people that they were now negotiating a "collective bargaining" agreement.

How in the world did you not make the connection?  Big smile

 

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  The protests in Wisconsin

The protests in Wisconsin have been neither civil, nor peaceful. And who do you think is going to pay for the millions of dollars of damage to their capitol building? 

It basically boils down to the conservatives having control in Wisconsin and the minority liberals throwing a huge temper tantrum. The unions have sent in protesters from other states that have no business being there. This is an issue for Wisconsin to solve, and outsiders need to stay out of it.

 

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A I said, I haven't been

A I said, I haven't been keeping up on it since it's across the big lake from me, but if what you say is true, that is absolutely deplorable and can't be in the best interests of them winning the battle!  The last I saw when I quit watching and keeping up with it was just sign waving and a lot of hollering in the streets and Rotunda.  If they have resorted to anything other than that, I would hope they would have their sorry azzes put in the slammer!!! 

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Wisconsin

Topgun, extortion is extortion.  I thought the first part of the article summed it up nicely.  Nice business...wouldn't want anything to happen to it.  No matter how you cut it, it's a threat.  It's one thing to avoid supporting a business you don't agree with politically.  Heck, I feel that way about GM.  But it's another to tell that business that unless they surrender their free will to you and support your political position, you're going to rain hell up on them.  I have a real problem with using force to obtain political endorsements...regardless of which side it comes from.

Seriously...is your position so lacking in merit that the only way you can get support is through fear and intimidation?

And if you haven't noticed, the unions are going back to the days  you described.  Here's a primer on AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka:

http://www.nrtw.org/files/nrtw/Trumka%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

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