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Joined: 01/14/2006
Posts: 15
winchester going under??

I read about this on huntingnet.com
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1384242

Is all this true because I was saving up for a model 70 ultimate shadow but after reading threw all that im not so sure now. Sound like they are flyin off the shelfs and I dont have the money right now and they are saying their quailty has gone down over the years.

So im also looking at the remington XCR but the msrp is like 893(for a 300 WSM) But what are you guys actually paying for the XCRs?

Or would it be worth it to try to get money quick and buy that model 70 ultimate shadow

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
winchester going under??

After finding out that my .325 WSM Model 70 backorder wasn't going to be filled, I picked up an XCR today in .300 WSM for $727. They had an Ultimate Shadow sitting right next to it and to me the XCR felt better and seemed to offer a lot more rifle for the money. One thing that really sealed it was when I opened the bolt on the Ultimate Shadow and found the last four digits of the serial number engraved on it -- looked like somebody at the factory had used an electric etcher and did it by hand. Nothing screws up the appearance of a jeweled bolt like big hand-carved numbers scrawled into it. I was also a little leery of the rubber overmoldings on the Ultimate Shadow. The softer molding on the forearm wraps under the bottom -- right where you'd rest it on someting when taking a shot. So I was a little nervous about that getting damaged. The forearm overmoldings on the XCR are only on the sides and look sleeker, too.

I really liked the claw extractor on the M70 but the XCR seemed made better, had a better trigger, and felt better. It'll certainly hold up to the weather better, too. The off tint from the TriNyte coating takes a little getting used to, but if you look at one up close you'll note that it's not just the outside -- the stainless parts inside the action are coated with it as well.

BTW, in reference to your other post, one significant difference between the Super Shadow and the Ultimate Shadow is that the Super has a push feed bolt and the Ultimate is claw feed. Another difference is that the Super has a blind magazine you can't open from the bottom -- the only way to unload it is to cycle the bolt to strip rounds out one at a time. The Super also has a cheaper recoil pad (Ultimate comes with a Pachmyer Decelerator) and no rubber overmoldings on the stock.

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Location: Alabama
Joined: 08/25/2003
Posts: 634
winchester going under??

If you read the CNN story ONLY the old models like the 94's and other lever actions are being d/c'd the new high end stuff will stay.

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Joined: 01/14/2006
Posts: 15
winchester going under??

Is a claw feed better then a push bolt feed?

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Location: Nova Scotia
Joined: 08/17/2002
Posts: 1762
winchester going under??

It is if you are hanging upside down. Laugh But seriously, under normal hunting conditions you will not know the difference. The claw feed grips the cartridge before entering the chamber and the push feed pushes the cartridge in the chamber. It then grips it after the cartridge seats in the chamber so you can eject it. It is rumoured that the claw feed can be marginally more reliable but I have never had a problem with push feeds.

Don Fischer's picture
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Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
winchester going under??

The push feed is a bit smoother than claw. Actually it's claw extraction. Both type's push feed. With the claw extraction, as you feed a round, the rim may slide under the extractor and you can feel it. On older mausers if that failed to happen, you couldn't close the bolt as the claw wouldn't go over the rim. Not a problem on newer ones. Claim's have been made that the claw extractor is stronger than the plunger (what you called push feed), but I've used a good many of both types and haven't found that to be true. Like many other thing's, it's more something to write about than to worry about! Talk to the Hand

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
winchester going under??

I've seen the claw-push issue debated for years. I always favored the claw because my first centerfire rifle was a pre-64 M70 and I was always pretty fond of it. In theory it sounds better, too, to think the case is gripped all the way to the chamber.

The claw was the issue that drove the pre-64/post-64 distinction and Winchester's decision to eventually reintroduce the claw much later.

But you can't escape the fact that Remington's 700 has been in production for over 40 years and sold goodness knows how many rifles. So when you think about it I doubt that could've happened if they had a reputation for misfeeding. I've had both and never had a misfeed or broken extractor with either (knock on wood!).

So at the end of the day, I think this issue goes in the pile with some of the others that get hot debate but which will never be solved:

Ford vs. Chevy
Earnhardt vs. Gordon
Pepsi vs. Coke
Push vs Claw

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Location: Alabama
Joined: 08/25/2003
Posts: 634
winchester going under??

After further reading I see that I was mislead by the CNN article (IMAGINE THAT). banghead

The Model 70, Model 94, and Model 1300 series will go out of production.

Here is ESPN's article:ESPN-Winchester Closing

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