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Location: Florida,USA
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Why Vote for Obama?

This is a serious Question.
I have heard so much nonsense spouted either for or against Obama and would like to get some concrete answers without the name calling and mudslinging.
I posed this question in another thread, to a faithful Obama supporter that is a member of this forum but have gotten no reply.
When I ran into a fella who had a "Vote for Change, Vote Obama" pin on his shirt I asked him why he was voting for Obama? His reply, "This country needs Change and Obama will do that." My reply was "what change? What is he going to change?" His reply was " What ? You want 4 more years of Bush?" I responded " Bush is not and cannot be a candidate for president." His response was (not kidding) " Bush lied to us about Iraq and Afghanistan, he flew tomahawk missiles into the Twin Towers so he could have a reason to get a war started with Iraq and finish what his father started."
Well I knew now was the time to quickly change the tone of the conversation so I simply asked him to tell me where Obama stands on the issues such as Abortion, Gun Control, Tort Reform, Taxes, Energy, Foreign Policy, with The Military and the War in Iraq. Iran, North Korea in particular.? His response was (no kidding again) **** off.

So I ask those of you who support Obama to state your reasons for your support as related to the Issues and where Obama stands on these Issues.
I don't care to know about McCains stand on the issues as I already know those, which is why I still undecided about who will get my vote as there are several Issues which I do not support McCains stand on.

Please keep comments specific to the question of Obamas stand on the issues and his qualifications that would make him qualified to lead this great nation.
I would also ask that Bitmasher summarily delete or edit any post that does not pertain to the spirit of the question being asked so as to not let the thread turn into a fiasco.

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Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
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Why Vote for Obama?

Obama will work to get our troops out of Iraq and concentrate our forces where the Taliban and Al Qaeda are re-emerging and along the Pakistan border. As 9-11 was conceived and planned in this area the next terrorist attack will be planned and excecuted from this area. Not Iraq.

He will give initiate tax breaks for the middle class (you know us guys unless you're a millionare).

I trust he has the intelect and moral compass to deal with Iran in the best way possible whether that's through diplomacy or with military action.

I believe he will attempt to find the best was possible to deal with the energy crisis so all Americans have the best resources for living and paying fuel costs. Rather then enacting legislation that helps to pad the pockest of already insanely rich oilmen.

Gotta run going fishing today, but will post more later.

Hope you have a great wonderfull day Jtapia, talk to you soon.

Toodles neener!

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Why Vote for Obama?

good luck fishing....it's raining here

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Joined: 07/29/2008
Posts: 723
Why Vote for Obama?

Close to 100 here, and the range was full up with muzzle loaders gettting ready for the season. Took forever for my barrel to cool and there was tons of smoke and stuff.

I'll probably respond in a couple of posts but first some background, (and bear in mind I was a McCainiac way back in the day)

Unless they are way behind politicians try to be a non speciific as they can before election day. Promises are hard to keep and things change. Also they want to appeal to as many as possible without alienating anyone.

With gun control I think he recognises the reality as do most politicians that you can't mess with the gun issue. He has stated that he agrees the second amendment addresses an individual right, not just a militia. On his web site it sounds as if he can understand hunting and target shooting but doesn't mention the fact that people like to have a gun in the house just in case they want to blow the bejesus out of some nut case coming through the front door. I don't worry about those things, but a lot of people do, and it's a legitamate concern.

Understand his background working as a community organiser in the inner city. Back in the 90s it was like a war zone. Drug dealers shooting themselves left and right and alot of others caught in the crossfire. That's why a lot of people were into limiting handguns in cities. Through statistical studies the attitude of the left has been evolving. Especially regarding concealed carrry. Statistics prove concealed carry to be a very safe thing.

I wouldn't look for any changes to gun law, and there might even be positive movement. He's going to be making some aquaintances with some very dedicated gun nuts, (secret service).

Taxes. I'd look for a shift back away from taxing the middle class. Since the increase in payroll taxes in the 80s the middle class has been hit prettty hard. All the breaks don't realy add up to much. A few hundred there a thousand there. It sounds harsh but during the 50s and 60s when the middle class was strongest the highest tax rates were much much higher than now. If I'm pulling in 100 million a year paying half in taxes just doesn't hurt that much. The hunting guide in Texas who makes 40K has a lot more of a struggle. The idea is progresivity in tax code.

It looks by the kinds of fellows Obama has been talking to, Volker and Rubin, that he's into balancing budgets and regulating securities, no more cowboy economics.

Think about it. Eight years ago we had a budget surplus and people were talking about what to do with the surplus. Now other countries are dumping the dollar as it sinks against other currencies.

I'll be back with more specifics later or you can go to his web site. He has had to state his position on a lot of things because of the primaries.

The first time I saw Obama on TV he was running for the senate and was down state talking to a bunch of farmers. Chamber of Commerce, lions club or something these were obviously smart old guys who had worked outside a lot. Instead of a pep rally he was telling them why he disagreed with them on some issue. Corn subsidies or something. He could have talked about anything else but he didn't. His position was at odds with thiers but he wasn't going to bullshit them. He couldn't, they weren't children. He knew about thier issue and it showed. He'd done his homework. He listened to them and said what he thought.

Watching that crowd of 100 or so old farmers it was obvious they liked him. A lot.

He did the same thing when talking at a UAW meeting last week. Told them they were going to have to change. No more big old gas guzzlers. Might have to manufacture something different. Auto workers have been pretty obstinant in fighting CAFE standards. He doesn't always tell you just what you want to hear. He also works well with people who have different opinions than him. Not only listens but tries to understand thier viewpoint. Open minded.

I'm not the only former Republican who will probably vote for him.

More later.

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Joined: 07/29/2008
Posts: 723
Why Vote for Obama?

Ethics from web site

Shine the Light on Washington Lobbying
Centralize Ethics and Lobbying Information for Voters: Obama will create a centralized Internet database of lobbying reports, ethics records, and campaign finance filings in a searchable, sortable and downloadable format.
Require Independent Monitoring of Lobbying Laws and Ethics Rules: Obama will use the power of the presidency to fight for an independent watchdog agency to oversee the investigation of congressional ethics violations so that the public can be assured that ethics complaints will be investigated.
Shine the Light on Federal Contracts, Tax Breaks and Earmarks
Create a Public “Contracts and Influence” Database: As president, Obama will create a "contracts and influence" database that will disclose how much federal contractors spend on lobbying, and what contracts they are getting and how well they complete them.
Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny: Barack Obama will ensure that any tax breaks for corporate recipients — or tax earmarks — are also publicly available on the Internet in an easily searchable format.
End Abuse of No-Bid Contracts: Barack Obama will end abuse of no-bid contracts by requiring that nearly all contract orders over $25,000 be competitively awarded.
Sunlight Before Signing: Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days.
Shine Light on Earmarks and Pork Barrel Spending: Obama's Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act will shed light on all earmarks by disclosing the name of the legislator who asked for each earmark, along with a written justification, 72 hours before they can be approved by the full Senate.
Bring Americans Back into their Government
Hold 21st Century Fireside Chats: Obama will bring democracy and policy directly to the people by requiring his Cabinet officials to have periodic national broadband townhall meetings to discuss issues before their agencies.
Make White House Communications Public: Obama will amend executive orders to ensure that communications about regulatory policymaking between persons outside government and all White House staff are disclosed to the public.
Conduct Regulatory Agency Business in Public: Obama will require his appointees who lead the executive branch departments and rulemaking agencies to conduct the significant business of the agency in public, so that any citizen can see in person or watch on the Internet these debates.
Release Presidential Records: Obama will nullify the Bush attempts to make the timely release of presidential records more difficult.
Free the Executive Branch from Special Interest Influence
Close the Revolving Door on Former and Future Employers: No political appointees in an Obama administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years. And no political appointee will be able to lobby the executive branch after leaving government service during the remainder of the administration.
Free Career Officials from the Influence of Politics: Obama will issue an executive order asking all new hires at the agencies to sign a form affirming that no political appointee offered them the job solely on the basis of political affiliation or contribution.
Reform the Political Appointee Process: FEMA Director Michael Brown was not qualified to head the agency, and the result was a disaster for the people of the Gulf Coast. But in an Obama administration, every official will have to rise to the standard of proven excellence in the agency's mission.

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Why Vote for Obama?

I just re read your original post. The guy you asked on the street is very typical of most people. Folks go for simple easy to understand ideas. The tomahok in the towers guy is what's calle a conspiricy nut. A very good freind who is a heck of a nice guy told me simply that he wouldn't vote for Obama because he was a Muslim. When asked why he replied look at that Rev Wright of his. How some nutty ex marine reverand spouting anti American sermons is a Muslim is beyond me. Most people have no idea of a typical politicians voting record, history, etc.

I hope the cut and paste from the web site was specific enought. Often it's said daylight is the best disinfectant. It is true there are no lobyists working on Obamas campaign.

Abortion. I'll quote with some commentary afterwards.

"Barack Obama understands that abortion is a divisive issue, and respects those who disagree with him. However, he has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women’s rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President. He opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in that case. "

Bear in mind half the pregnancies in the US are unplanned. The number one reason for the unplanned pregnancies is misuse or not using birth control. Changing insurance plans when one plan covers one drug or method and then switching jobs and getting another confusing contraceptive causes a whold lot of unplanned pregnancies. I've never heard of anyone being pro abortion. In the last 8 years the number of abortions increased, in the 8 years prior they decreased. Less abortions is better right? Better health care for women will decrease abortions.

You think guns are a hot button issue with us? Ask a woman over 30 about abortion, there's a fair chance she's had one. Abortion is a horrible thing, and I hope my daughter never has one, I'd rather raise the child myself no matter who the father. But not everyone is me. My daughter is her own person, many believe women should make thier own decisions.

Social Security

Pure and simple Obama is against the effort to phase out Social Security

Health Care in his words, very detailed specifics here.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/
Edwards and Hill the shill held his feet to the fire on this one.

“We now face an opportunity — and an obligation — to turn the page on the failed politics of yesterday's health care debates… My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less. If you are one of the 45 million Americans who don't have health insurance, you will have it after this plan becomes law. No one will be turned away because of a preexisting condition or illness.”

Energy

This one isn't rocket science. Europe is way ahead of us in many cases using technology we developed but didn't legislate. We need a plan to take us into the future not one where we wake up to $4 gas. Every engergy expert tells us drilling will do no good now, and between you and me ten years down the road we better be way beyond desperatly drilling for oil. The time to think about these things is before they happen. It's called leadership.

Remember the global warming arguement? Now it's a question of how much. No one knows. Sea levels rising wouldn't affect me much. Ice cap melting would be great for Alaska and Russia. Twenty degrees more would eliminate elk here and I want my son to hunt elk when he's old enough.

I quote from his site.

"“Well, I don't believe that climate change is just an issue that's convenient to bring up during a campaign. I believe it's one of the greatest moral challenges of our generation. That's why I've fought successfully in the Senate to increase our investment in renewable fuels. That's why I reached across the aisle to come up with a plan to raise our fuel standards… And I didn't just give a speech about it in front of some environmental audience in California. I went to Detroit, I stood in front of a group of automakers, and I told them that when I am president, there will be no more excuses — we will help them retool their factories, but they will have to make cars that use less oil.”

North Korea

Last week the Bush administration reversed the policy of 7 years and is engaging in talks with Korea and Iran. I wouldn't call it surrender or appeasment but rather diplomacy. Obama was ridiculed for suggesting just such a dialouge.

Veterans

As a member of the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs, Obama passed legislation to improve care and slash red tape for our wounded warriors recovering at places like Walter Reed. He passed laws to help homeless veterans and offered an innovative solution to prevent at-risk veterans from falling into homelessness. Obama led a bipartisan effort in the Senate to try to halt the military's unfair practice of discharging service members for having a service-connected psychological injury. He fought for fair treatment of Illinois veterans' claims and forced the VA to conduct an unprecedented outreach campaign to disabled veterans with lower than-average benefits. Obama passed legislation to stop a VA review of closed PTSD cases that could have led to a reduction in veterans' benefits. He passed an amendment to ensure that all service members returning from Iraq are properly screened for traumatic brain injuries. He introduced legislation to direct the VA and Pentagon to fix disjointed records systems and improve outreach to members of the National Guard and Reserves

The war in Iraq

He was accused of being defeatist and advocating surrender etc. Then the prime minister of Iraq at great risk to himself agreed with him re a 16 month timetable for US troops to withdraw, then President Bush reversed course, (we won't call it a flip flop) and agreed a "time horizon would be good, then his apponent in the race for president also agreed 16 months sounded about right. Then his aides talked to him (re repub apponent) and he qualified on 16 months.

In reality I think he'll do what any reasonable president would do. He said something to the affect of withdraw as carefully out of there as we were careless going in. I'd add a brilliand military campaign, America showed just what an amazing military we have. It was the insane decision to invade that was so nuts. There is plenty of blame too. How many democrats were brave enough to sacrifice their job in apposing it. Very few. That triple amputee from the Vietnam conflict stands out in my mind. I think his name was Max Chamblis or something. US senator, gave 3 limbs fo his buddies, savaged with lying attack adds.

JTapia I hope this has answered some of your questions. You should start another thread about McCain, I have a few questions but this isn't; the place.

Dinner time.

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Why Vote for Obama?

SoCoKHntr, civetcat, Thanks for all the info. It'll take some time to sort thru all of it. First I'll have to address the important stuff....SoCoKHntr, did you catch any fish?

I have been to Obamas website, among others, but found that he was rather vague on some of the issues, it would be nice for him to be more specific.
I really wanted to hear from someone that actually was going to vote for him say why.

I didn't do a McCain thread because he has been a senator for so long I believe that I know where he stands on the issues. Some I do not agree with him on, with immigration being one.

For the record I am a registered Republican, more moderate than conservative though. I absolutely do not believe that Government should tell us how we live but rather they should protect the way we choose to live.

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Why Vote for Obama?

Soco and Civecat are right. Though I too felt like posting, this isn't the post for it. JTapia's requests should be honored. I do however believe that his original question has still not been answered. JTapia has stated he knows where Obama states he stands on issues. JTapia is looking for why you guys want to vote for him. I believe that JTapia is looking for an emotional and/or personal response on how you feel Sen. Obama meets your criteria for President. I feel that has not been answered.

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Why Vote for Obama?
jfrench wrote:
Soco and Civecat are right. Though I too felt like posting, this isn't the post for it. JTapia's requests should be honored. I do however believe that his original question has still not been answered. JTapia has stated he knows where Obama states he stands on issues. JTapia is looking for why you guys want to vote for him. I believe that JTapia is looking for an emotional and/or personal response on how you feel Sen. Obama meets your criteria for President. I feel that has not been answered.

An emotional or personal response? Jfrench, I'll do my best. I believe he is an intelligent and honorable truthful man. I believe he cares about America and it's citizens and will work to get us on a path that can benefit all Americans from the lowest rung to the highest. I agree with his views on the Iraq war and fighting terrorism. I agree with his agenda on the economy and other social issues. I as an American would feel more secure with him leading the country then someone who espouses the same direction and agenda George Bush has taken us on for the last eight years which Mcain seems to want to do.

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Why Vote for Obama?

Ok, you've probably noticed that this thread went way off topic and has been split into two. The last two posts were made in reference to the posts that have been split off, consequently they seem a bit out of place.

Lets try to stay on topic. Remember you can always start a new thread with a brand new topic (or rant!). Big smile

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Why Vote for Obama?
jfrench wrote:
Soco and Civecat are right. Though I too felt like posting, this isn't the post for it. JTapia's requests should be honored. I do however believe that his original question has still not been answered. JTapia has stated he knows where Obama states he stands on issues. JTapia is looking for why you guys want to vote for him. I believe that JTapia is looking for an emotional and/or personal response on how you feel Sen. Obama meets your criteria for President. I feel that has not been answered.

jfrench,
That's exactly what I was looking for, kinda like a "what do you guys know that the rest of us have missed" thing.
Based on his(Obama) website I felt that he is very vague and non-specific on a great many of the issues. There was not enough information for me to have the confidence to give him any consideration for my vote and that made me begin to wonder how others could come to such differing conclusions using the same information, I thought that surly they must be privy to some information that the rest of us aren't.
That being said, I believe that Soco and Civecat have been sufficiently forthcoming with their respective answers to my question. There has been some direct quotes from campaign website but followed with personal commentary.

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