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Joined: 01/05/2013
Posts: 92
which bushing?

Okay so I bought yet another box of ammo. This time I wanted to try out a Barnes TSX bullet. So now I've got 20 of BUFFALO BARNES 250 gr. 338 WinMags. The reason for the post is this:

I just bought Reddings Type S Full Length Bushing Dies. I wad told that I needed to take a measurement of a loaded round. Hence the reason for purchased ammo. Plus I wanted to try a TSX. I'll end up using their 225 gr. after these are gone. Anyway. I was told to measure a loaded case to find out which bushing to use. So it measured .370. The bushings Redding says to buy for a 338 WinMag are from .361 -.365. So which bushing is best then?

Critter's picture
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I have to admit that I have

I have to admit that I have never heard of such a process for setting up a reloading die. So I went searching on Reddings site and here are the instructions for you.

I think that I'll stick with RCBS dies.

http://www.redding-reloading.com/tech-line-a-tips-faqs/132-faqs1

Critter's picture
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I was thinking this morning,

I was thinking this morning, did you use a dial or electronic measuring devise to come up with your measurement and did you zero it out if you use the electronic one? Case neck thickness of the brand of cases could also throw you off just enough that you won't be within specs. Do you have a gun shop that you can go down to and ask them if you can measure some different loads straight out of the boxes that they have on the shelfs? They just might be interested in what you come up with also.

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Joined: 01/05/2013
Posts: 92
bushings

I bought a Lyman digital caliper.   I zeroed it. I was measuring the neck just below the rim of the case mouth.  So the spent cases were reading 

consistently at .370.  The loaded ammo was reading .362.  So if you subtract that ffom the spent case reading it equals .008.  Not much of a difference.  If I subtract .338 from .362 that gives me .024.  Would I divide that by two to give me the case wall thickness? 

 

 

 

 

And when I'm holding the calipers up to the case I'm making sure that they are reasonably level.  

 

 

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Joined: 01/05/2013
Posts: 92
forgot

Oh. The spent cases were Federal Premium. And the brand that Buffalo Bore uses for the 338 win mag are from Winchester.

And heck if I follow the Reddings own formula by subtracting .002 from a loaded  round i would get .360.  Well the smallest bushing I have is a .361.  I'm going to an old man's house today who has a micrometer.  I check it again there.

Critter's picture
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According to the instructions

According to the instructions from Redding you want to measure a LOADED case or a factory loaded round. Then subtract .002 from what you have for the factory loaded round.

So if your new unfired case measures .362 then subtract .002 and you will come up with a bushing size of .360 but since they don't make that size of a bushing then I would buy a .361.

I measured 6 loaded rounds for my .340 Weatherby but since it is also a .338 caliber the results should be the same.

200 grain Hornady factory round .362
250 grain Hornady factory round .362
250 grain Nosler Partition hand load .362
225 grain Barnes X bullet factory round .362
225 grain Barnes TSX Bullet hand load .362
185 grain Barnes XLC bullet hand load .362.

I personally think that you are making this handloading way too complicated. The world has been reloading with the standard 2 die set from other manufactures for over 100 years and has got along fine. Now Redding has come out with a extra part that you need to purchase to do the same thing that all the other die manufactures haven't seen a need to do? If you are trying for the best accuracy it may help but with a standard die that is set up to SAMI specifications I can shoot Sub MOA at 400 yards with a number of my rifles.

If I was you I would return the type S dies and purchase a standard set of dies and start reloading.

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I agree with Critter, your

I agree with Critter, your making it way to complicated. Reloading tool compqnies are always coming out with the latest and greatest tools designed to sell reloaders! I think the only dies other that the old standard dies that offers an improvement is the Lee crimp die. I got one for my 243 and it was strange sizing a case. Couldn't feel the neck being sized down and no drag over the expanding button as the case came back out. The benifit was a great loss of neck streack which equals less time trimming case's and the neck's don't thin as much from streaching. Case's sized with reg dies you should be able to get 5 or 6 loading's out of. Then we're told we need to anneal the neck to avoid splitting. The thing we are not told is that after 5 or 6 loading the primer pocket's are becoming loose so annealing isn't gonna do all that much for you. 

You will find lots of people using all the latest and greatest to squeeze another .250" in group size but I have no idea how they ever really know unless they have a bench rest rifle and know how to shoot it. Lets face it, a rifle that shoot's 1/4" group's from a bench rest is not going to effectively kill even one more animal at normal ranges than a rifle that shoot's 1 1/2" groups. The extra 1 1/4" of accuracy is great for bragging right's but you'll never see it on a shot animal.

I have lot's of dies. RCBS, Lyman, Redding, Lee and Herter's. One collet die, the lee. several neck sizing dies and mostly full length sizing dies. If I could only have one type it would be the full length sizinbg die. With it it can be adjusted to make a case fit a bit over sized chamber. It can eliminate the effect's of excessive head space by how it is adjusted. On a belted case it will pretty much move the headspace point from the rim to the shoulder helping eliminate head splitting from a sloppy chanber. The neck size die will only work a few times and then you have to FL again to move the shoulder back and make the case chamber properly. I suspect I'll find the same with the Lee collet die.

If you get caught up chasing the latest and greatest tools, you won't necessarily make better ammo. I'm sure you've seen the case prep center's? Nothing is really done there that a case deburring tool won't do equally well. And the part where your supposed to be able to trim case's, we've been doing a long long time with a regular case trimmer. Digital scale's I'm sure are neat to have and probably work well but, my understanding is that when the battery's get low, they become less than reliable. Digital caliper's do the same thing that dial calipers do except you don't have to count lines to get a reading, just look at the readout. Many years ago RCBS made a plastic caliper that I never learned to read other than in metric, it was great and if lost or broken, very cheap to replace.

Keep in mind that there are more tools made to get the handloader to buy stuff than actually offer any real gain in the finished round. You can make very good hunting ammuntiton with very basic tools. You can make very accurate varmit ammo with very basic tools, but if you want match grade ammo, your going to have to understand bedding and be willing to have a barreled action blue printed and learn to shoot or the best your likely to get is something between a 1" and 3/4" rifle. That's not to bad at all for a hunting rifle of a varmit rifle. Tools with not make up for a lack of knowledge in your reloading or a lack of professiency in your shooting technique or a bedding problem in your rifle.

I'd like to have one of those socnic case cleaners. Just to say I have one. a lot of people question the need for case cleaning in the first place. But the one I clean in my vibrating cleaner sure look nice!

buffybr's picture
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Location: Montana, USA
Joined: 11/15/2007
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which bushing?

I also agree with Critter and Don Fischer. You're making reloading too complicated.

I started reloading for my first center fire rifle, a .30-06, in 1967. The rifle was a barreled action and a semi-inleted stock from Herter's, and my press and dies were also from Herter's.

Since then I've loaded thousands of cartridges for at least 11 rifle cartridges and 4 pistol cartridges. I've upgraded my metallic presses to a RCBS Rockchucker and a Dillon 450. All of my dies are standard RCBS, Pacific, Hornady, Lee, and Herter's.

I reload for all of my shooting and hunting, which includes hunts for all of Montana's big game animals, and multiple hunts in Africa, Canada, Alaska, and several other western states. 

Yesterday I also looked up Redding's Type S Full Length Bushing Dies, and came to the same conclusion, that they were WAY too complicated. I get moa or better accuracy with all of my hunting rifles with cartridges loaded with my standard two die sets.

Yesterday I loaded 90 cartridges for my .300 Weatherby (one 50 round box and 2 20 round boxes). The tools that I used were:

A homemade case and cartridge length gauge

A Lyman Universal case trimmer

A RCBS case chamfer tool

A RCBS loading block

A Herter's primer flipper tray

Redding Imperial Sizing Die Wax

RCBS standard FL 2 die set in a

RCBS Rockchucker press A RCBS powder measurer

A RCBS 505 scale

A ? brand powder trickler

A MTN 4" drop tube funnel.

Like most reloaders, I have a room full of reloading things and gadgets, but 90% plus of my rifle reloading is done with the tools listed above.

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