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expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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What's up with Republican Governors?

Given the bill of goods being sold to the country under the current administration, we'll see how this plays out in the long run. After all, we're talking about leadership that convinced Congress to spend 3/4 of a trillion dollars of YOUR money without even reading the bill. Sounds pretty absurd to me.

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Location: California
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Posts: 1071
What's up with Republican Governors?

Expat wrote,

Quote:
Diversity of opinion may be the lifeblood of democracy, but diversity without civility is simply anarchy.

As usual expat our views are not so far off. I have nothing against all who participate here being made to be civil and as polite as political discourse allows. If anyone thinks politics isn't a mercurial topic they can dig up Alexander Hamilton and ask him. Pangolin needs to stop with the nastiness and if he can't he should be history. I think that given the conservative nature of hunters and shooters we simply need to be extra careful in giving those with differing opinions a fair shot or we're as guilty as those we despise.

CVC
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Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
What's up with Republican Governors?

No one here is against differing opinions. We learn from them and frankly, it livens things up.

But and it is a huge but, there is a difference between different opinions and lies, insults and more lies.

I hardly ever post in the political forum anymore because I do not want to be subjected to attacks. Not that I can't take them but because I don't want to take them and I will not stoop to their level with lies and insults.

Want to debate an issue and stick to the issue without personal attacks then i am all for it, but keep the nastiness and lies out of it.

cowgal's picture
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What's up with Republican Governors?

Bunny, how long should a forum put up with someone who insists that personal attacks are the way to debate? We're adults, and this forum expects everyone to behave like adults. It gets old and tiresome very quickly to constantly have to supervise someone. This is NOT about a difference of opinion, this is about bad behavior and constant insults.

We should be having this discussion in the destructive posting thread.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
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What's up with Republican Governors?
CVC wrote:
No one here is against differing opinions. We learn from them and frankly, it livens things up.

But and it is a huge but, there is a difference between different opinions and lies, insults and more lies.

I hardly ever post in the political forum anymore because I do not want to be subjected to attacks. Not that I can't take them but because I don't want to take them and I will not stoop to their level with lies and insults.

Want to debate an issue and stick to the issue without personal attacks then i am all for it, but keep the nastiness and lies out of it.

I'll say this and then leave it alone. I think there are two main issues at stake here with your dissatisfaction CVC.

One, you tend to be a little uptight (def: Rigidly conventional, as in manners, opinions, and tastes) which causes you a high level of frustration when the discourse isn't framed in the manner you feel it ought to be.

Two, you let your bias interfere with calling the shots fairly. I've seen you jump all over the slightest questionable remark by pango, but overlook reams of remarks made by others to him.

From my perspective pango offered a lot of arguments and backed them up with sources (which you and others didn't like) and made attempts to stay on topic. He was often met with ridicule, sarcasm, obfuscation, and contempt.

Remember the potato thread?

In the end unless you are able to frame the debate and create rules which favor your side you choose not to participate. I surely don't want to keep you from participating in a forum of a site you are strongly connected to so you won't have to worry about any 'attacks' from me and whether by force or his decision it looks like pango won't be around either.

CVC
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Location: Kansas
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What's up with Republican Governors?
Quote:
One, you tend to be a little uptight (def: Rigidly conventional, as in manners, opinions, and tastes) which causes you a high level of frustration when the discourse isn't framed in the manner you feel it ought to be.

Two, you let your bias interfere with calling the shots fairly. I've seen you jump all over the slightest questionable remark by pango, but overlook reams of remarks made by others to him.

From my perspective pango offered a lot of arguments and backed them up with sources (which you and others didn't like) and made attempts to stay on topic. He was often met with ridicule, sarcasm, obfuscation, and contempt.

If expecting someone not to intentionally misstate another's opinion or to leave off parts of a statement to disparage the person, if expecting someone to be civil is considered to be rigid then yes I am rigid.

What shots am i calling that I need to call fairly? I am not a referee - I don't need to be unbiased. Pango has attacked me and others and yes, I don't like the personal attacks so I've voiced my opinion. No different than you voicing your opinion.

You criticized me for stifling pango, but yet you don't like me speaking up.

Go back and read my post to him. In it I offered not only constructive advice, but an olive branch. Did it take it, no he responded in his typical nasty way.

And keep in mind, I shared my point of view here and disagreed with you without taking one cheap shot, without insulting you or attacking you.

Yes, this is the type of debate I expect, but then again, what do I know, I'm rigid.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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What's up with Republican Governors?
CVC wrote:
If expecting someone not to intentionally misstate another's opinion or to leave off parts of a statement to disparage the person, if expecting someone to be civil is considered to be rigid then yes I am rigid.

What shots am i calling that I need to call fairly? I am not a referee - I don't need to be unbiased. Pango has attacked me and others and yes, I don't like the personal attacks so I've voiced my opinion. No different than you voicing your opinion.

You criticized me for stifling pango, but yet you don't like me speaking up.

Go back and read my post to him. In it I offered not only constructive advice, but an olive branch. Did it take it, no he responded in his typical nasty way.

And keep in mind, I shared my point of view here and disagreed with you without taking one cheap shot, without insulting you or attacking you.

Yes, this is the type of debate I expect, but then again, what do I know, I'm rigid.

Well, you make debating a topic with you tantamount to having to run a request through higher command to ensure an answer meets your specifications. You allow yourself to get locked into smaller inconsequential issues to avoid dealing with the larger issue. "He's not playing fair, he's not playing fair" is what it constantly sounds like to me regarding the way he says something over what the substance of the comment is.

And, in effect you have made yourself the referee by your constant complaints and attempt to influence an action to silence those that don't fit into your acceptable definitions. If Pango indeed was inflammatory for the sole sake of being inflammatory, I would be in agreement with you, but I don't see it that way. I do agree that this is a private website and if offensive to the majority here the site has a right to act as it sees fit. But, please be honest about and don't say it's because he was doing something inherently negative and to effect trolling. He just had the audacity to provide an opinion and argument that went against the grain here.

CVC
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What's up with Republican Governors?

So you think he was positive, I think he was negative. We have different opinions and opinions are just that, opinions. Right or wrong depends on who holds the opinion.

Quote:
And, in effect you have made yourself the referee by your constant complaints and attempt to influence an action to silence those that don't fit into your acceptable definitions. If Pango indeed was inflammatory for the sole sake of being inflammatory, I would be in agreement with you, but I don't see it that way.

I have not compained very often about him. Usually when I received a pm from someone offended by him. Do you think the person in charge of this forum would act on my behalf if others and they did not believe him to be inflammatory?

You give me way to much credit if you think I have that power.

SoCoKHntr's picture
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What's up with Republican Governors?

I meant influencing in regard to your question and poll. Didn't mean to imply the powers that be would follow your directive. If enough of a frenzy was whipped up by members I'm sure they'd act.

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
What's up with Republican Governors?

Funny how those on the left have such a strong tendency to turn any discussion about standards away from the logic of the standards themselves, and morph it into putting someone's personal value system on trial.

It's classic Alinsky -- personalize it and push it to the outside. Rather than discuss the values of the standards, paint the person imposing them as some sort of intolerant tyrant.

The standards in discussion trtanscend CVC, and represent standards agreed upon by an apparently significant majority for the sake of civil discussion. That's not tyranny -- that's democracy.

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