30 replies [Last post]
Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?

My biggest concerns are the loss of respect for the animals we hunt, or in some cases snipe. We hear increasingly about longer and longer shots and the story becomes the shot. We hear of those that feel a magnum will allow them to kill farther so they don't miss that once in a lifetime shot, will a 300 RUM kill an animal any farther away than a 300 Savage? Only if you hit well with the 300 RUM and miss with the 300 Savage! I see to many people much more concerned with something to hang on their wall and the whole experience is a failure without that. I hear to many people unwilling to say anything about something they find unethical for fear someone will admonish them.

In years past, hunting was how some, many, got their winter meat. They hunted not so much for sport but for necessity. I think those people had a greater respect, generally, for the game they killed than some hunters today.
Hunting was a necessity then and for some today. But mostly hunting is sport today. A sport in which if man loses, he goes home empty handed but if the animal loses, it dies, sometimes, to many times, a slow painfull death. Why? Because some people view them only as a target and expendable. I had one guy tell me that a wound was ok because blood is biodegredeable! Disgusting!!!!! I do not believe that any death should be taken lightly, from a sage rat on up!

Last week I ran into a guy that was going archery hunting for his first time. It was two days to opening day and he still didn't even own a bow! He'd never shot one. What he had was hunter safty and that legally entitled him to get a bow tag. As I thought about it, I realized that it's no different with rifles. I have seen some absolutely rotten shot's take off hunting with their new gun and hunter safty done. We doo not have to show any profeciency with any weapon and would likely scream like hell if we did!

Hunting is a privledge, one we should protect and defend, not by stonewalling anyone that speake of ethics but by speaking up. I read on another site a poster said "don't judge me and I won't judge you." How distastefull!

We are allowing technology to replace hunting skills, indeed we go out of our way to welcome in the latest and greatest. The new range finding scope from Burris, I would be against that. I find no need for a rangefinder in fact. If your so far away you can't make a good hit with a point blank hold, you to far away usually. In my youth, we used to make a game out of judging range, at one time I was very good at it.

I was out with my son some time back, and he took me to a place just outside of Bend, Ore where a lot of people shoot. Shotgun mty's and cheap rifle cases were everywhere, you could have filled a dump truck. Another time, I took "Otis" out for a walk outside of Bend, a different place, and found an illegal garbage dump. That's not our fault, but everything there was all shot to hell with mty's everywhere again,,,,,,,,,,that was us. I say "us" because the anti's make no distinction and to many of "us" say nothing.

Hunting is an honerable sport. Death should always be with dignity. We should have the highest respect for those animals we kill. And we should always try not to give the antis the ammunition to use against us.

I will get off my perch now. Let me say first tho that overall I see far less of these things on this site than most others. We really do have a fine bunch of people here. This is one site where I'd have a hard time picking names of fine people,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I even like Mrs Hammer1! Thumbs up

WesternHunter's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/05/2006
Posts: 2363
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?

Don Fischer,
You have spoken correctly.

By the way, it a darn shame what you found around Bend, Ore. I've alway thought of that as a very nice place. Too bad that a few people are so willing to help trash it.

Offline
Location: Florida
Joined: 08/02/2005
Posts: 85
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?
The right to own property is one of the great things about capitalizm and democracy. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that just because you are a military member/veteran or a hardworking individual that you are some how entitled to being granted access to someones private property just because you asked them to hunt on their land (even if it was their great great grandfather who was granted the land)"quote wrote:

Land ownership is a good thing about this country. Greed is an unwanted side effect. I will bet you my winchester that you think American troops are good enough to go to the sand box and die for thier country and your land ownership rights, but you would not give back something that costs you nothing, footprints on your property.

I am entitled to nothing more than I earn for myself. Your arrogance is typical of what is wrong with this country. Mine! Mine Mine! is the prevailing attitude of the arrogants who charge 5000 for a deer or 10000 for an elk.

I know there are property owners here, but it doesnt matter. Greed has become a family value and nothing ever changes. Vote wisely? Chose between two skull and bonesmen as if we have a choice? Who do you think is in charge here? The arrogant landowners who were granted free reign.

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?

Without a doubt, my main concern is access. Up here in Alaska, access can involve a lot of effort and expense. But I can understand that -- millions of acres of rough wilderness and few roads. But I've also hunted in the South -- where private land ownership and hunt clubs had things sewn up so tight it was pathetic. That made me downright sick. There were landowners who wouldn't let you hunt because they'd sold exclusive rights to hunt clubs. There was a definite note of exclusivity down there I didn't care for -- people prided themselves on seeing how much they could lock up for themselves and now much riff raff they could keep out. Sharing just wasn't a way of life. Sure, if you're "in" and have the cash, it's great. But if you're not a member of royalty, forget it.

I can handle mother nature trying to lock me out. But my fellow man? That bothers me. At least mother nature's an equal opportunity discriminator.

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?

Ok, I understand what many of you are saying and why you feel the way you do, but I'll play devil's advocate here Evil! .

Why should a land owner let you hunt on their property? As a comparison, let's say you have a pool in your backyard, and I knock on your door. What are the odds that you're going to let me go swimming?

Or maybe I want to have a picnic and you have a nice backyard and grill. You going to let some guy that happens upon your front porch bring his family and use it?

It is wonderful when someone is generous enough to share their resources, their property that they paid for, that they pay taxes on. We should appreciate it when it happens, but really have no expectations that people will or should do it.

Offline
Location: Florida
Joined: 08/02/2005
Posts: 85
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?

If i had one pool in my backyard and you asked to use it, I would probably say no.

If i had 5000 pools in my backyard, stretching over 15 miles that werent being used, or were rarely used by a few bourgoisie, pools that the government had installed for free over 200 years ago, I would let you swim.

You hit the nail on the head, expatriate. I currently reside in the south, sprawling forests everywhere and 90 percent of the hunters are concentrated on 10 percent of the land. These old landowners are downright rude if you politely ask for land access, as if you were asking for a spin on thier 17 year old daughters.

Once again, I understand that i am entiltled to nothing and that no one owes me anything, however, that is no justification for the greed, arrogance and sickening behavior of the majority of landholders in this area. The state of florida locked into a ten year court battle with the Lykes brothers cattle co. over the access to Fisheating Creek by the public. An river area that the cattle company owned around that they wanted to keep all activities out...including canoing, fishing, hunting and birdwatchers. This is land they got for free. Who cares if they " paid thier taxes" , whats needed is a redistribution of wealth. I have a big smile everytime a piece of property is snatched back and added to the everglades, dont expect any sympathy from us.

Offline
Joined: 06/18/2004
Posts: 66
Concerns about hunting/hunters

I have read the article in the NRAs magazines about the problems with land access. I have seen this for upland birds, but I have not seen it for big game. I drive 250 miles, out of state, to hunt deer for free. The bucks do not have super big antlers, but the hunting experience is good. How many people can say they can't find a place to hunt deer for free within 250 miles of their homes? Have they invested some time in trying to meet and establish relationships to obtain hunting rights?

I think the answer to all the hunting gadgets is just don't buy them. Last year during deer season I wore green dockers (over-the-hill trousers from the office) and a red/black checked cotton flannel shirt. I own camo that matches the woods well where I hunt, but I chose not to wear the camo just for the heck of it. I took a doe on opening day and a buck the second day of the season. I guess the deer didn't know I was supposed to wear camoflage to hunt deer. Most of my deer kills have been at fairly short range -- 25 yards, 20 yards, and 50 yards. Two were at medium range -- 140 yards and maybe 250 yards. No need for a range finder or magnum cartridges at any of these ranges. A .30-30 would have been fine except perhaps for the 250 yard shot. A .30-06 would have been entirely adequate.

Of course, if you have the money feel free to spend it on the gadgets. But we are at risk of getting wrapped up in the gadgets and forgetting what hunting is about. The reason I had the 25 yard and 20 yard shots above was because I was mindful of the wind and mindful of where the deer are going to be moving at a specific time of day -- hunting skills. I could have killed those deer with an atlatl and a stone tipped spear. Also, it is better not to make new comers to the sport feel that they can't get in without a massive investment. Truth be known, all it takes is some cash to buy a rifle with open sights -- maybe quite inexpensive if you can find a good price on a used rifle in fair condition. Even new, however, you can buy a Remington 700 ADL with open sights in .30-06 for less than $300 if you look around. I don't think you can take up the sport of biking for as little as that.

I didn't read the posting stating that military personnel shouldn't assume they should be granted permisison to hunt as arrogant. Seems pretty reasonable statement to me. I grew up on a farm that was owned by my father and about 6 of his siblings. He told me never to allow strangers to hunt pheasant or rabbit on the farm. These siblings and their families were allowed to hunt, and that was plenty of hunting enough for that piece of property.

WesternHunter's picture
Offline
Joined: 05/05/2006
Posts: 2363
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?

Coop,
You will loose that beloved Winchester if you place that bet. You are very very wrong as far as what you think my attitude is towards US troops. You should never ever make an off-the-wall disrespectful comment like that if you don't know the sacrifices some families have made for God & Country.

Keep something else in mind. I typically drive 100 to 300 miles every time I want to find a good place to hunt. I don't like it anymore that you do.

Skull & Bonesman Coop?? Give me a break! Yeah maybe some former presidents and presidential canditades belonged to it. Then again I'm alumni of a fraternity and I don't get any special privileges in life now, nor do I expect them. I earn everything I have.

I sure hope that you do realize that your vote does matter when it comes to state and local government!!

You talk about greed? Well greed is a two sided coin pal - those who have stuff, and those who want it from them.

But I still stand firm in the belief that property owners (including home owners) have a right to decide who is allowed on their land. We cannot condem that right.

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?

I don't condemn property owners rights, nor will I ever advocate government intervention to require property owners to open their lands.

However, I do feel there are people out there who try to sew up as much access as they can, to include refusing permission to transit their property (even if asked) to reach National Forest land on the other side.

This sentiment covers environmentalists who do things like demand that logging roads be obliterated or closed off. They argue they're doing it for the environment, when what they're actually doing is everything they can to cut off access to anyone who doesn't subscribe to their views. It also covers overly-complex fish & game standards that leave you wondering if you can set foot in the woods without fear of prosecution.

Bottom line is that the more difficult it is to hunt, the fewer people who will attempt to do so.

Offline
Location: Florida
Joined: 08/02/2005
Posts: 85
What are your concerns about hunting/hunters?

You are absolutely right. A good friend of mine is an environmental scientist who was doing watershed research on a piece of Florida state lands. Even though he was working for the state and the property had a road access, landowners from the surrounding land accosted him, pointing shotguns at him, told him they would kill him if he came back.

He was scared to death. Some of these local landowners really piss me off. I would have shot them in the face if I happened to be with him. When he called the cops, the landowners created some story about illegal mushroom pickers.

The south is the worst I have seen. Most other areas, people will politely deny access or sometimes let you hunt. In the south, people point guns and make threats.

My own story of hunting in Mississippi on a piece of military leased National Forest land as follows. I am hunting deer and the rancher from the adjoining property acosts me. He tells me I am poaching private property and he is legally allowed to protect his property however necessary so I had better leave qquickly. I reply you had better check your property lines, I am on military land. He replies that he leases the grazing rights, so the land is his. I reply so you pay a dollar an acre for grass and you think you own the land, get the fuck out of my face. I killed a nice 6 pointer there the following morning.

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
2011 UTAH DEER HUNTkitchenpasswoohoo711/11/2011 01:51 am
Avian Bird Fluredrider208/08/2006 10:19 am
Finding a Butcher in New Brunswickmarko5440111/23/2007 15:12 pm
Poaching???Bsnort101/13/2005 08:02 am
DIY Elk, Montana 319/341 anyone hunt these units? Appparition602/15/2014 05:04 am