Any one hunted Water Buffalo before?
19 replies [Last post]
Mon, 2007-10-29 21:20
Tue, 2007-10-30 17:02#1
i got one here in texas. i used my .376 steyr, with 270 grain hornady bullets, and it took 4 shots the final shot was from about 6 feet away, went in the left side of the neck and ended up under the jaw on the other side. the meat tasted ok, but was tough as steel. i gave most of it to the food bank, the rest to my dog. i would love to go to australia to hunt some there.
Thu, 2007-11-01 18:37#2
I hunted them in OZ back in the mid 60s, on two occasions. all three I took were taken with a 375 H&H, with 300 gr Hornady solids, and the went down easy. Of course that is a very small sample to judge by, and I have far more experience with Cape Buffalo,than the sweepers of OZ.
IMO, they are not as agressive, as cape buffalo,and though they are bigger, they go down much easier, from the few I've taken. They are fun to hunt, and the country in the top end is so beautiful, you simply can't describe it, with any degree of accuracy, that will tell someone who hasn't been there, and make them understand.
O'Banion of Indian Town, Fl has some really large ones, but they're the eastern Europian veriety, but are wild as heck. I haven't hunted his place, but i have talked to him at the DSC convention, where he was selling hunts in Tanzania, as well as the water buffalo on his ranch in Fla! He will not allow you to use anything less powerfull than a 375 H&H with a 300 gr bullet, and he will rent you a 470NE double rifle if you want!
Fri, 2007-11-02 14:32#3
that sounds like a good place to blood my .458 lott!
Fri, 2007-11-02 16:07#4
kevin davis wrote:
that sounds like a good place to blood my .458 lott!
It would be a good place to blood that rifle! His ranch is a mixture of swamp, Marsh, and bamboo, and palmeto flats. The buffalo, and other exotics are very wary, and have learned to stay close to the cover at the edge of clearings, so it only takes a quick trot to full cover.
The Philappino water buffalo are not very agressive, but they are large, and in this ranch are very wild! If you are a member of SCI, you can find his adds in Safari times news, and the SAFARI magazine. Joe & Liz O'Bannon run the ranch, and it is named J&R Outfitting I don't know if I'm alowed to post a web-site here but if not let me know, and I'll send it to you in a PM!
Sat, 2007-11-03 10:36#5
Excuse my ignorance. Ar these the same bullalo found in India and S.E. Asia?
Sun, 2007-11-04 11:33#6
Don Fischer wrote:
Excuse my ignorance. Ar these the same bullalo found in India and S.E. Asia?
This is the WILD type found in Most of Asia, and in Australia. The ones like cam69conv shot are phillapino water buffalo,shown below, and are a domestic breed, which were crossed with some other Bovine.
O'Bannon's stock are the Philapino type, lke the one cam69conv shot! Though the one in the picture is a very large one, and about as big as they get!
The Cape Buffalo pictured in the link below, and in my Avatar below, are a whole different thing, and are very aggressive, and can stand a lot of punishment, before they go down for the count if the first shot is not a killing shot. Once he gets his juices running through his vains, you are in trouble if you make a mistake!
Peter Hathaway Capstick, was fond of saying:
"Once a Cape Buffalo puts together a concentrated charge, your options have been wounderfully simplitied! You kill him, or he will kill you! "
Sun, 2007-11-04 21:12#7
Last year JJHack did a post and showed a photo of a cape Buffalo's heart that had taken, I think it was a 375 bullet thru it. The bull kept going but I have no idea how. He posted it on Greybeard. For anyone intrested, he recently did a long post on what the trophys may go thru getting from the field to your home. A wonder some of them make it at all! That was also on Greybeard, africa where he moderates.
Mon, 2007-11-05 10:52#8
Yep that looks sorta like the one I shot, Sept the horns didnt stick out that far before the curl. But the body looks to be about the same size and color. The head seems to differ somewhat but I cant tell. Maybe some sort of crossbreed because it had a Big boss the same as a cape. Doesnt look like the boss on the one you have pictured has a big rize on the boss like the one I shot. Also the horns were way more rounded with no flat like the one you have pictured. Guess thats what had the guy and me cornfuggled. The curls on the one I shot were way more pronounced but didnt go way out before curling. BTW. it would be HIGHLY difficult for you or anyone to tell the size of the one I shot from the only pic I have, which is just the head and cape (cape was just to the middle of the shoulders) But to me 1500+ pounds in nothing to sneeze at as far as size of an animal and from what the the guy told me this sucker was as ornery as it gets and the female in the field with it was mean as hell too. Tried to charge the tractor when we went to pic up the animal, damn near had to shoot her just to pic it up. Im not sure what it was, but it aint looking, from the pics you are posting, that the one I shot was the same thing. Hell who knows what it was, like I said, could be some sort of crossbreed between a phili and a cape. Never know nowadays what people do on these farms.
Mon, 2007-11-05 11:49#9
Yes Don, the cape buffalo is an amazing animal, and to those who have not hunted them, they become a big suprize, when a good boiler room shot seemingly has no effect at all. Something else the unschooled find is the rifle/cartridge they thought would be so devastateing on cape buffalo, turns out to be a little like a Daisey BB gun, for all the stopping power it has in real life.
Anything will kill a cape buffalo, if everything is JUST RIGHT, and you have a bull that is unaware of you, and you do everything right. But killing a big Dugaboy, and stopping him are two itirely different things.
All that being said, you were given the real poop by JJ, and though he has some personal experience with cape buffalo, most of his safaris are for plains game, in RSA. So what I'm saying is he carries a 458 LOTT back-up rifle because some of the game ranches he hunts, also have a few Cape Buffalo, and though few of his client hunters actually hunt the Buff, they are hunting the bush where some live. He understands that his 458 LOTT may be needed at any time, and he also understands what is required to do an effective job on old Mbogo. Most of his clients are carrying plains game rifles, that are not well suited to Buff stopping, or even legal for buffalo hunting.
The hide around the shoulders of a big bull will be 1 1/2" thick, and the muscles under it is like tightly wound steel cables, then the front leg bones of a cape buffalo, require 1500 lbs of pressure, in a hydrolic press to snap! All this is before you get to the spine, or the heart lung combination. this also destroys all but the best of bullets. The minimum bullet diameter, in conjunction with minimum FPE, legal for cape buffalo are a rule for good reason. It doesn't matter that some people don't agree with the rules, they must abide by them anyway. The only way you can get around these rules is, with a special permit. Of course the mag writers who write about this don't bother to tell the public, that these permits are not easy to get, and again, for good reason. Then because of these articles, you have those who want to hunt buffalo with an illegal chambering,when told their choice is not well suited for cape buffalo, get angry, and use the article to justify their choice. The drone is: "Well .................... (you fill in the dip sh,,t's name) , killed two cape buffalo with one shot, one standing behind the other, with a ................(you fill in the deer caliber) so that proves my choice is a good buffalo rifle!"
What about shooting the lungs behind the shoulder to avoid the heavy bones? Yes you can, but you still have the heavey hide, and the ribs are massive as well, and behind the shoulder misses the heart, and a .458 dia hole through BOTH LUNGS, takes a while to leak out enough blood, into to the chest cavity, and to effect more than a few square inches of lung capacity to do a quick job. I've chased Buffalo for a couple of miles with both lungs bored, right out the off side, and then find them still standing, but sick, and requireing a finisher to put them down, and that was with a 470NE double rifle, a real Buffalo rifle.
In the rare event of a real un-provoked charge of a cape buffalo, you are going to have a very close (10 yds, or less)frontal target, that is closeing FAST, and with the brain bouncing up &down, and side to side, and if you miss the brain with anything but a double rifle, it will not stop, or turn him, and you will not get a second shot . The only shot that will stop a chargeing cape buffalo in his tracks, is one that hits the brain, or spine (CNS)! Any other shot will only get you a chance to hit them with the second shot, with a double, but with a lever, pump, or bolt rifle, you will not get the second shot that close! Unless someone else in the party is shooting also, there is little chance of stopping a charge from 10 yds before he hurts or kills someone.
An Elephant will, most times, be turned by any heavy slap to his face, and give you chance to get one in the heart/lung area as he turns, even with a bolt rifle, and then a going away hip shot. BUT..............Buffalo, as Capstick's quote in one of my posts above says, you got no other choice than to kill him before he kills you! I believe anyone who chooses less that an accepted Buffalo rifle/cartridge combination, is not well ballanced in the attic, OR, simply missinformed. In any case, he is steping into a very dangerous place, and the fact that he may not be at fault for his missguided choice, the price he may pay, could be the highest, and last he will ever pay!
Mon, 2007-11-05 12:40#10
Yep that looks sorta like the one I shot, Sept the horns didnt stick out that far before the curl. But the body looks to be about the same size and color. The head seems to differ somewhat but I cant tell. Maybe some sort of crossbreed because it had a Big boss the same as a cape. Doesnt look like the boss on the one you have pictured has a big rize on the boss like the one I shot.
The one you shot, and all water Buffalo, have no boss at all, but a hairy dome skull under haired skin. The horns are seperated like that of domestic cattle. A Cape Buffalo's horns grow together in the middle, with no hair beteeen them on a full grown bull. The cap cows are a lot like the waterbuffalo, with no boss.
Also the horns were way more rounded with no flat like the one you have pictured. Guess thats what had the guy and me cornfuggled. The curls on the one I shot were way more pronounced but didnt go way out before curling.
The horn configuration of water buffs very largely in their shape, and the one I posted is not like yours,with a hairy dome skull, but was the only picture I had of a Phillapino water buffalo, however here is another, if it comes out above. Most are more like the one you shot. If you will pull up the web-site
http://www.jroutfitters.com you will likely see your water buffalo pictured there, as that is the type he has!
BTW. it would be HIGHLY difficult for you or anyone to tell the size of the one I shot from the only pic I have, which is just the head and cape (cape was just to the middle of the shoulders) But to me 1500+ pounds in nothing to sneeze at as far as size of an animal
I wasn't refering to the body size of your buff, but the horn size, which indicates a vry young bull!
and from what the the guy told me this sucker was as ornery as it gets and the female in the field with it was mean as hell too. Tried to charge the tractor when we went to pic up the animal, damn near had to shoot her just to pic it up.
I believe you said this guy only had about 500 acres, and since he was afraid of them, they had most likely been harrassed a lot, by moveing about on his property on that tractor. The cow want to charge, is not uncommon, once you have killed the only other one on the place!
Im not sure what it was, but it aint looking, from the pics you are posting, that the one I shot was the same thing. Hell who knows what it was, like I said, could be some sort of crossbreed between a phili and a cape. Never know nowadays what people do on these farms.
The only cape buffalo in the USA are in zoos, there is a stringant embargo on cape buffalo coming into the USA, because of the fact they carry bovin deseases that are deadly to water buffalo, and domestic cattle. The carry deseases, and they are immune to them, but cattle, and water buffalo, as well as American Bison die like fies from it. There is one place near the Davis Mountains of West texas, where they are trying to get a permit for experimenting with a small herd of Cape Buffalo, to start a limited hunting operation. However, the walls in place by the feds, are getting in the way in a serious way. If you hunt cape buffalo, you will have to go to Africa, or forget it, and when you go to afruica, you may as well forget the 444, because it is illegal every place where cape Buffalo are hunted!
....................SORRY, but that is just the way it is, like it or not!