8 replies [Last post]
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Location: Montana
Joined: 10/24/2006
Posts: 448
Very interesting observation

http://www.havredailynews.com/articles/2007/09/14/opinion/letters_to_the...

Ill see if there are any replies before giving my opinion though from a guides point of view what the writer says is all true.

Offline
Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
Very interesting observation

Am I missing something? It seems the writer is all upset about what is going on on PRIVATE land. In my opinion - what goes on on private land is the business of the landowner (whether or not I like it).

Quoting the writer: "Where is the resident Montana hunter in these scenarios?"

Answer: Try PUBLIC land.

If Montana is anything like Idaho - there is gargantuan public land.

And if I want to hunt private land closer to home - I gotta ask, and be prepared for some `No's'.

Offline
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 23
Very interesting observation

I agree with the writer but what can you do about it? the free enterprise system is alive and well in the hunting business.

From what I understand there is not a lot of public hunting land available in Montana, which is unfortunate.

Maybe the answer is to have a club that secures hunting rights from landowners through it due paying members.

I don't know what the answer is, but I truly cherish the public land animals that I have harvested.

Offline
Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
Very interesting observation

Indeed interesting. I lived for a while in W Montana - and it was mostly Public ... but maybe that mis-represents the rest of the state - especially the flatter parts. I was pretty focused running around all the public land that surrounded me. Think

SoCoKHntr's picture
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Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1776
Very interesting observation

I think he makes some good points. Hunting was once a mainstay of the blue collar joe, but now seems to be giving way to a hobby of the wealthy. Just watch a majority of the hunting shows on the outdoor networks and you know most of them are hunting prime private ranches with 360 plus bulls or Boone and Crocket bucks running on every-hill side within driving distance of these pros who pay 3,000 to 5,000 for their trophy.

There is plenty of public land here in Co. and I hope it stays that way, but you always drive through some of the some of the most prime private land crawling with game to get to it. Also, this may piss of some ranchers, but they not only get subsidies from the DOW for game damage, but they then charge 1,000 are up to hunt their land and make a killing on both ends. Their are exceptions, but most ranchers will laugh at at a guy for asking permission without $$$ unless their is some other connection like good friends or family.

Offline
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 23
Very interesting observation

the day before the elk hunt last year in Colorado area 71-711 we saw the private landowners ranch hands doing a huge push through the public area herding the deer and elk onto his private land. I guess he does that every year, it takes a week or so before they start filtering back, but during that time many of the nicer bulls and bucks are harvested by his high paying clients.

Offline
Location: Idaho
Joined: 06/01/2004
Posts: 1068
Very interesting observation

Technically - `pushing' animals is `hunting' (at least in Idaho regs). If they are doing it before the season - then they are hunting out of season. Decent F&G officers, a good prosecutor and a fair judge ought to be able to `nail' these guys. But maybe that's a big `if'.

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Moderator
Location: Kentucky/ Colorado
Joined: 06/23/2005
Posts: 1740
Very interesting observation
Serious Hunter wrote:
Technically - `pushing' animals is `hunting' (at least in Idaho regs). If they are doing it before the season - then they are hunting out of season. Decent F&G officers, a good prosecutor and a fair judge ought to be able to `nail' these guys. But maybe that's a big `if'.

It's tough to prove but if you can, they can get into trouble in Colorado for doing it. There's been many complaints over the years outside of Craig, many hunters have eyewitnessed it.

Offline
Location: Montana
Joined: 10/24/2006
Posts: 448
Very interesting observation

Here is part of what I observe as a hunter and a guide, 2 things which in reality sometimes conflict with one another. First off I absolutely think that the public hunter is being pushed aside in many states, no I don’t think this, and I know it. I also support private land rights and one should be able to do almost anything with their land so long as it doesn’t hurt the environment or people. Right there is a conflict.
Yes there is a lot of land for public hunting in most areas of Montana BUT there is ALOT more hunters. In a lot of states, school lands and other resources are being turned to public land but we are talking a few hundred acres or much less. The turn over rate hunter per acre isn’t sustained due to more and more land being cut up. Its one of the reasons the Mule deer hunting isn’t what it was in the 80`s. Simple fact is their habitat has been vastly shrunk due to urbanization and whitetails, much more adaptable to urban areas has been on a growth rate of massive proportions.
Ill give an example, I grew up on a very remote ranch, there was a 60 miles stretch with NOTHING but very large cow pastures. Now the complete 60 miles is houses, native Montanans that can no longer afford to live in western areas moved in. Hard to keep up with California money on Montana wages.
Another point of interest is South Dakota, what the writer of said article brings up is EXACTLY what is going on in western SD, a complete hunter lock out of private land. SD is a no outfitting state, the reasoning for this lock out was caused by a fight with GFandP but the real issue is the ranchers since have locked out there land and several of the leaders of said lockout guide hunters. I personally know several South Dakota hunters who now are forced out of state to Wyoming and Montana due to little public land to hunt on. Much what is there is an island surrounding the big ranchers in the lock out, it’s a huge mess and could be another large thread itself; my point is what the author says I can easily see it happening in many other states.
Pushing wildgame into private land is illgal in every state I have heard of,and in my huble opinion very unethical and more so if money is made from it. I dont guide like that and wouldnt work for a outfitter OR a ranch that would.
But really not my point, my main point I guess as hunters,outdoorsman and land owners all must be proactive in working together or the only people hunting, in my opinion will definitly be only those that can afford $16,000 hunts.

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