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Location: migratory cycle around Africa
Joined: 02/06/2003
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Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

Actually, I ws right in all I wrote, but be that as it may.........

The Tanzanian game laws, like most other African countries require that all the trophy fees are paid to the game dept before the export licence is issued and the trophies exported. That applies to all trophies and all hunters and that requirement has always been there. Offhand, I can't think of a single African country that doesn't have and enforce that requirement.

I wasn't suggesting you should tip more that you're comfortable with, and that isn't what I said. All tips are obviously always at the discretion of the client. I was just pointing out that your suggestion that staff are commonly expected to work for tips alone was complete BS. - I'll again stress that I think you meant that you were told that's the case and that whoever told you is the one full of BS, not you.

Sounds like you had a good hunt and I'd love to see some pics if you can post them. I'm always interested in seeing trophies, esp cat trophies and also hearing about camps and areas I might not know.

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Joined: 11/01/2007
Posts: 92
Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

by "holding them hostage" I meant not allowing one to hunt them on a license, i.e. seeing a legal lion on a 7 day hunt and not being able to shoot him cause you didn't buy a 21 day license though you only wanted to hunt for 7 days for a buffalo and just happened onto a legal male....odd that the Tanz gov't doesn't mind if you pay for the 21 day tag and only hunt 1 day....another "it's all about the money not the animals" IMHO...the same lion is dead either way..but that's the way they do it and if you want to hunt there you play by their rules.
BTW I just happened onto my leopard while tracking duggas...a unlikely feat to say the least...as it was day three and our baits were out only 1 1/2 days in another block.
I hunted in 2 blocks owned by Licky something or other saw 1 leopard, just 6 buff all dugga boys total, and 7 lioness as well as 1 legal male...couldn't afford the TF on the male with the new rates even though there was still one on quota for the block and I had the 21 day license!! took his picture from 50 yds though...no TF for that black nose boy !!!!!!

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Location: migratory cycle around Africa
Joined: 02/06/2003
Posts: 35
Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

You're looking at the licencing system purely from the point of view of a one time hunter rather than considering the long term view of the game dept and the concession holder. The reason for the quota and licencing systems where only certain key species ar permitted to be hunted on certain term licences is to ensure that only a limited number of animals are taken per year and also that the concession holder makes sufficient money to stay in for the long term and therefore take an interest in the long term management of the block, which in turn ensures the well being of the entire eco-system and the all the game populations............. and so on, and it's that very system that means Tanzania has the best game populations and the best hunting in Africa.

Incidentally, the game laws also set minimum trophy standards for the key species and heavy penalties for both the PH and client should those minimum standards be contravened...... this is a real pain in the arse for us PHs but it's also a major factor in maintaining the game populations by ensuring only mature males are taken.

I know Licky and am 99% sure that he pays his all his staff...... admittedly, probably not quite as well as I do and certainly they won't get as good side benefits, but I'm pretty damn sure he does pay them.

I also know most of his areas, and indeed some of his areas border some of the ones I hunt, so can I ask which one you were hunting in? - We might even have been neighbours!

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Location: migratory cycle around Africa
Joined: 02/06/2003
Posts: 35
Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

Incidentally, if the Lion was holding a pride a good PH wouldn't have let you shoot it anyway.

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Joined: 11/01/2007
Posts: 92
Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

I was hunting next to the Lohumbero river and also the Kilumbero river...and I do not know how they are spelled but they sound something like that. We used a dirt runway that a plane crashed and caught fire on not that long ago, the remains were still strewn around, a PH named Hopkins was burned pretty bad in the wreck as were the hunters. Without looking it up block R4 and K2 (?) come to mind.Licki had sold some of his quota to the outfit I hunted with.
I'd been to Africa 6 times prior to that trip and wanted to try my hand at some DG hunting and see "old" Africa. Sure was wilder than the PG hunts I'd taken in RSA and Na. I only had a short time (14 days) to hunt as I needed to get back to the office. I did kill 2 mature buff..one was over 42" wide and hard horn the other was 38 and a year too young IMHO ,a tom leopard, a nice sable,nyasta wildebeast and passed on the lion,2 good bull elephant and hippo not to mention eland,zebra,reed buck,hyena,kudu and others. My PH said he doesn't usually get clients whom will walk all day thru the burned grass and hunt from dawn to dark..hell I figured I was there and I wanted to do as much as I could in those 14 days ..I even caught some Tiger fish in the Kilumbero at an old camp site while having my 458WM slung over my shoulder cause of the hippos.
* you mentioned something about Licki paying his boys I had heard after I got home that my PH got stuck for his pay for the season...not by Licki but by the the guy whom bought the quotas from him who quit the biz and lives with his native born wife in her village....don't know if that true but that's what I heard .

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Location: migratory cycle around Africa
Joined: 02/06/2003
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Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

That's Kilombero River, and I know that strip and crash scene well. I actually have about 200 images of the crash taken immediatly afterwards by the guys that survived it and how no-one died, I simply don't know. How they were all able to walk away (bar one who had to be stretchered out due to a back injury) is a bloody miracle!

I can't remember where the boundaries are without checking, but I'd be suprised if you hunted that area if you flew into that strip...... they're not that far apart but there's a closer strip to that camp......... it could be it was unserviceable for some reason though. Alternatively, it could be you were not in Simba Camp. (See next para)

If you stayed in the R4 camp it was called Simba Camp and I'm the guy who named it that and also the guy who dealt with the Lions that were causing the problems that were the reason for my naming it such. FWIW, The whole story is told in the Hunting Articles section of our shakari connection site and entitled Hippo Hassles and Problem Lions. I've also stayed in that fly camp you fished from wnhen it was new.

The correct spelling for the wildebeest you took would have been a nyasaland wildebeest and it's the one with the white stripe across it's nose.

The leases for the two areas are owned by separate people /companies and the info you have isn't quite correct, but it would be unprofessional of me to comment further on that. - I'm sure you'll understand. There's also a good chance I would know the PH you hunted with.

Got any pics of that spots?

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Joined: 11/01/2007
Posts: 92
Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

yes I have pictures a couple cards full from that trip, I never bothered to learn how to post them on this or anyother site but I could email you them in a zip file. My PH was Mohamid "Charles" Horsley and I would hunt with him again any day .Like I said earlier we never got to sit in a blind for spots we spotted him while on foot in daylight tracking a buff herd that had crossed the 2 track a couple miles back and I punched his lights out as he climbed a tree for a nap!!!
Yes there were problem lioness in the area and my PH and another talked about the problem bitches calling to the males across the river at night...matter of fact another guy in camp killed a nice male not 1/2 mile from camp and I have video of us comming in our truck after being called on the radio to stand guard for the boys while they loaded the male as the bitches kept bluff charging the truck whenever the boys got off...we pushed a hippo 1/4 out the back of the truck hoping they would feed on it long enough to let the male get loaded...no way! they were intense!!! A few days later while headed for the airstrip to fly out in the pre dawn we came across 3 lioness on the2 track...Charles fired my rifle in the air and i beat on the truck cab to get them to stop bluffing the truck. even at that they followed us down the track for some ways after we did get past them.
The air strip was about 1 hour away from our camp by truck and the brown tsetse were thick there but not at our camp. Also there were a ton of nice croc in the river next to camp. It was a tent camp.

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Location: migratory cycle around Africa
Joined: 02/06/2003
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Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

Feel free to e-mail the pics to me at shakari3@mweb.co.za and I'll be happy to post them for you.

I'v never met Charles but know of him and he has a good reputation as far as I know.

All the camps in the Selous are tented - Do youknow if you were in Simba Camp in R4?

That area usually has a lot of wild dogs as well..... which I always enjoy seeing.

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Joined: 11/01/2007
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Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

Simba does come to mind now that you mention it BUT wouldn't bet my retirement on it. I saw no wild dogs nor heard talk of them . Horsely did however point out rhino tracks to me and when I mentioned I had not known they were in that area he winked and said that "they" are trying to keep it a secret to protect them. Should you run into Charles some day tell him the only pastor he ever hunted with said HEY! He was surprized at my choosen profession an that I could do a fair Muslim/Islamic rite for he and the camp staff...was even more shocked that I knew why he had to use my knife to bleed a trophy so they could eat it's flesh .
When I'm not so harried I'll send you some pics.

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Location: migratory cycle around Africa
Joined: 02/06/2003
Posts: 35
Trophys from Africa- on the cheap

I thought you blokes only worked one day a week! Big smile Big smile

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