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onzaman's picture
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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

Here's the Liberal media at work to save our country.
This is very sad we all need contact ABC and complain to them about their crusade against the scope company in Michigan. They need to hear from a large number of people that we are at war there because the Muslum's have declared war against Christians and Jews. We did not cause or start this war. But leave it to ABC to try to take apart a good Christian company. Are they Muslim based?
We are a Christian Nation whether ABC likes it or not or Barack Obama

CVC
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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

Are we really a Christian nation? I'll concede that the founding fathers were Christian and that many of our founding principles are based on Christian ideas, but that doens't make us a Christian nation. A foundation of this country was protection from government religion; people could choose their faith without fear of government reprisal or the establishment of a government religion.

To say we are a Christian nation excludes Judism, indigenous religions, and others which is unacceptable in my opinion. We are a nation where one can freely practice their religious beliefs; not just Christianity.

I will protect the rights of others to believe or not believe, to practice their faith as they choose because that is what will protect my right to practice my Christian faith and I will not exclude them from our nation.

WesternHunter's picture
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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

This country wasn't founded on any particular religion or religious beliefs as many today may falsely believe. But I will say that in this new war on terror it is muslim extreamists who have made this a religous war. It is true that they will not be happy until all Christians and non believers are dead. I have no problem with having biblical references on a military scope. It reminds me of the scene in Apocolyps Now where Col Kurts is recording into a tape recorder saying:

"we train our young men to drop fire on people, but our own government won't allow them to write Censored on their airplane because it's obscene" Confused

expatriate's picture
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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

I suspect that what onzaman was trying to say is that we were founded by Christian men expressing Christian beliefs. If you read anything the founding fathers wrote, it's obvious that they saw a divine connection to what they were doing, and invoked God regularly -- as evidenced by the Declaration of Independence.

Does that mean Christianity is the State religion? No. It just means Christian beliefs lay at the foundation. Unfortunately, there are too many people out there that have no idea what's in the Constitution. Thus, they confuse freedom OF religion with freedom FROM religion. What bothers me about the Trijicon incident is that it establishes a precedent and reinforces the idea that our government can't use tax dollars to purchase a commercial item that has a religious reference on it. We're moving toward the day when lawsuits are going to demand that we take "In God We Trust" off of our money -- and they're going to win. And then what? Arguing that tax-free status is government support of religion? Bans on religious displays on public property? Already going there. I can see the definition of "public" expanding over time to build on the idea that atheists should be able to walk down a public street without being subjected to religious messages. Personally, I don't think they'll ever stop until religion is stamped out our country and driven underground like it used to be in the Soviet Union.

My 10 year old made an interesting observation the other day: "There sure is a lot of voodoo and such in movies anymore." Sure enough. That was after seeing Disney's "The Princess and the Frog", which is full of Voodoo. "Sherlock Holmes" centers around black magic. "Avatar" is full of nature worship. Vampire movies may be nothing new, but vampires are now the good guys, and Christians are presented as small-minded bigots. In "Legion", an angry God has decided to destroy the world and sends an army of angels to exterminate the human race -- and it's up to a group of people to stop it, aided by rogue archangel Michael. A few years ago, it was Satan as the bad guy -- now it's God. The same Hollywood that refuses to portray an Islamic terrorist for fear of offending someone is bashing Christianity with abandon and pushing the occult like crazy. When was the last time you saw a Hollywood production present Chrisianity in a positive light? I don't think I've seen one since Christians pushed Proposition 8.

So personally, I'm a little reluctant to sit down and shut up to be "tolerant," because I don't see a lot of tolerance being expressed toward me.

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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

Expat wrote,

Quote:
So personally, I'm a little reluctant to sit down and shut up to be "tolerant," because I don't see a lot of tolerance being expressed toward me.

Yup!

WesternHunter's picture
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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

I was raised a hardcore traditional Catholic. None of this Norvus Ordo BS of modern churches, no I'm talking old school catholisism here. We sudied church history very in depth as youngsters, almost too in depth. It was to the point that as I became older I clearly understood how the Catholic church being mismanaged by man all these centuries has at times been more evil and hypocrtical than the evil it was fighting. Just know that it wasn't too many centuries ago when it was the Christians and the Catholic church who were persecuting, terrorizing, and murdering non-believers for the simplest nonconformity, all done in the name of God. More people have been murdered in the name of God than for any other reason on Earth. I don't think God is too happy about that either. I guess you can say I was blinded by Catholism early in life, and can now see the light. I banished religion long ago, but I still consider myself a Christian and I still harbor core beliefs as a Christian. However I'd rather allow ethics to govern my life than to have hypocritical religion do it. I will admit Expat that I do take great comfort in knowing that I can interpret freedom of Religion as freedom from religion just as well. Still I do think the biblical references on those scopes is fitting for todays battlefield Thumbs up

expatriate's picture
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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

I respect everyone's right to worship whatever they please, however they please. That includes if they want to be nonreligious. However, I'm a big believer that your (not you, WH -- hypothetical) right to wave your arms ends at the tip of my nose. So in my mind, an atheist that demands that I hide my beliefs for his sake is no less a tyrant than I would be if I demanded that he join my faith.

The Constitution merely prohibits the government from establishing an official state religion -- as in other countries where the state religion gets perks and support that others don't. The Constitution does not ban religious expression by private citicizens, business, or even government employees. And yet that's increasingly becoming the case. Supervisors are being told they can't express religious opinion, because if they do they get accused of creating a "hostile environment" for people who don't share their faith.

The Constitution does not include a clause guaranteeing freedom from offense. In fact, occasional offense is the cost of a free society. We'd all be a lot better off if we'd grow thicker skins and suffer the differences of people around us while they suffer ours.

WesternHunter's picture
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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

I agree. The US Constitution is a wonderfull thing. I just wish more lawyers, government agencies, politicians and judges would fully understand it and consult it every time they make a ruling or decision that affect the lives of Americans.

Good point about having thicker skin. I think plenty of that could be had by people from all sides. What I said about religion may have been extream, but that extreamisn is what caused me to unburden myself from it. I made a clear conscious choice and never looked back. But despite having experienced and lived that extreamism I still maintain my Christian identity and adhere to core Christian beliefs. I have no problem at all with refernces to God on my currency, on state or federal documentation, or in our pledge of alegiance.

Problem with people today is that nobody wants to be offended. More specifically everyone wants to be insulated from the cold hard truth about things today. Hence PC being too much in vogue today. Getting back on subject, the world needs to accept that muslim extreamists have declared a religious war on all infedels. There are times when you need to bring extream violence to the enemy with a message. Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire.

expatriate's picture
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Re: Trijicon Puts Bible References on ACOGs

When you're fighting an enemy united by religion, motivated by religion, guided by religion, and invoking that religion as he fights for objectives defined by that religion, you're in a religious war. Doesn't matter what you want to call it for political correctness. That's what it is. And yet we freak over the enemy's claim that an interrogator abused a book, or that a female interrogator used a red magic marker to make a prisoner think she had menstrual blood on her fingers when she touched him. Religion gives our enemy mass, unity, objective, and even acts as a form of chain of command. If we avoid that major source of strength, and even apologize when the enemy claims we come near it, we're fighting the war on the enemy's terms.

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