10 replies [Last post]
Offline
Location: Lima, Peru
Joined: 02/13/2006
Posts: 1
training

Hi, i have a German shorthair... and im thinking of train her for retrieving and also for pointing... could somebody help me in training??? what to do, like what exercises or how to train the dog? i ask becouse i live in Peru...

Thanks,

Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 06/07/2002
Posts: 506
training

I don't know anything about training dogs, but I did want to welcome you aboard. 8)
The only thing I could suggest is searching the internet, or buying a book on it.
Good Luck.

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
Re: training
lloriquin wrote:
Hi, i have a German shorthair... and im thinking of train her for retrieving and also for pointing... could somebody help me in training??? what to do, like what exercises or how to train the dog? i ask becouse i live in Peru...

Thanks,

It would be difficult to go thru the whole thing here. Basically, teach her to mind really well. Don't worry to much about bird work for awhile, that's a bred in trait that you can wake up pretty much whenever you want to. But if you can't control her, you'll have a problem. Lot's of obedience.

Sound's like you know little about dog training. Am I good or what! lol Anyway, I recommend two books. First, find "The Monks of New Skaete". They really are monks from New Skete, New York. The raise and obedience train German Shepards. What you'll be learning is training tecnique for obedience. It'll give you good insight into dog behaviour. Next, get "The Best Way to Train Your Bird Dog, The Delmar Smith Method' x Bill Tarrent. Read it several time's befor you start to be sure you understand. Keep something in mind, you are going to make more mistake's than your dog, don't take them out on her. Don't worry to much about them either. Your not going to ruin your dog with a mistake here and there. If that were true, there would be no trained dog's on earth.

If you run into a problem, stop! Get back on here and look for help befor you do make a mountain out of a mole hill. Remember about dog's. They have few natural instinct's; eating to survive, hunting to find food (not for you), protecting their young, sleeping to revive their body and breeding to keep their species going. Those other thing's we refer to as instinct's are really trait'sdeveloped by humans to meet OUR need's. The instincts you take advantage of and the trait's you develope.

Word of caution about guns. Proper introduction to gun fire is necessary. What you'll be doing is conditionong her to a loud, sharp noise, not the gun. If she is a bit noise shy, and some are, she may well associate the noise thar cares her with whatever she was ingrossed with at te time. A method that has alway's worked for me is; use a 22 RF rifle to start. While she is running around, hold the muzzle a few inches off the ground and shoot it, While shes not watching you and not chashing a bird. Remember, she'll associate the noise with what shes investigating at the time. Do it while shes not watching you. Watch her closely when you shot. She may pay no attentionor may be a bit nervious. Ignor anything she does and keep walking. If it makes her nervious, one shot is enough for this walk, do it one more time the next day. If it doesn't bother her, wait a bit and do it again. No more than three time's, some pup's that are a bit nervious are good at playing little tuff guy.

Do that for about a week or until the pup pay's no attention to the shot, then pick up the muzzle and shoot at something. Watch the pup. Probally will take it in stride but if shes nervious at all, back up awhile. When the 22 doesn't bother her at all, get your shotgun out. Take a few fired shells and drill out the primer pocket's with a 1/4" drill. In the pockets you can now put in new shotgun primers. Load them one at a time and walk your dog. Let her see you pop a few of these and again watch her. Probally no problem. Now your showing her where the noise is comming from.

A few times like that and load up real shells. Let her get off a good way and fire one into the ground, watch her. If it doesn't bother her do another and put it away for a couple day's. Don't try to introduce her to the gun to fast. Shes a pup or young dog and you'll have years of enjoyment if you take it easy and don't push anything.

Watch her in every thing she does. You'll learn to understand what shes telling you. In other words, you will be able to predict what shes about to do. Learn to read your dog.

Best of luck,
Don

PS
A photo of my old "Hannah" at 13 yrs after the last hunt she went on. She died at 16 yrs. God I miss her!

Offline
Moderator
Joined: 12/03/2005
Posts: 1691
training

I have absolutely no expierence with hunting dogs but with dogs in general, all training should be rewarded with "praise" not treats.

If you're serious about this and have no history with training, a good trainer is a must.
The trainer trainsYOU, and you train the DOG.

Offline
Location: Berea, Kentucky
Joined: 12/18/2005
Posts: 13
training

Whats bad is the price of flights, so many people back out, and dont send the dogs. They try and do theirselves,Then when it falls apart or they get confused, they quit and the dog wins, sad but true.

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
training
tailcrackin wrote:
Whats bad is the price of flights, so many people back out, and dont send the dogs. They try and do theirselves,Then when it falls apart or they get confused, they quit and the dog wins, sad but true.[/quo

This is real true. Even worse is the guy that just bull's ahead, screws up the dog and then want's a trainer to fix two or three years of mistakes in 30 days! But we all started somewhere and some of us without benefit of a trainer to help out. You can do this. Just remember, don't wait to long to ask for help and the one making most of the mistakes will likely be you. Get your dog out and obedience train him and introduce the gun. Take your time!!! Then come back here for the next step. GET THE BOOK'S! Read them till your blind!

Don

Offline
Joined: 01/16/2006
Posts: 10
training

Hey, haven't been on here for a while. One thing about Delmar's book, it doesn't have introduction to multiple guns. There's been enough people asking questions on this subject that it should be addressed. Alot of them now have gunshy dogs even after they were introduced to gunfire. The dogs only developed gunshyness after multiple guns were shot over them. If you successfully introduce gunfire, don't attempt to put the dog up immediately against a line of hunters. The sound of one shotgun is nothing when faced with multiple shots all going off at once. Take the dog out hunting alone with just you for a few times to let it know why the gunshots are there. It's usually only once or twice then the dog gets it and you'll know. When a shot is fired, the head pops up and looks in that direction and may even run alittle towards the sound.

Another DVD you should get is the Smith's Puppy Development DVD. Very simple conditioning methods for later training. Not complete but no bad either.

Offline
Location: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 05/11/2006
Posts: 13
training

If you are looking for some good reading material, I would suggest "Richard A. Wolters,...Water Dog. It also comes in a DVD. He has a number of other books on training out as well. Well worth a look. I have two labs. ONe is three and a half, and the other one is not six months old yet. I have been casually working with the older dog since he was 10 months old. I had a field trainer show me a couple of things, and I went from there. I have no one here where I live to show me how to advance, but recently found someone 3 hours away that could help me work on his Hunting Certificates, and Working Certificates. I have done all the training myself just by asking lots of questions, but it was wonderful to do some hands on stuff with some other people who are working on the same things. Riley is the older dogs name,and he picks up the bird great, can do doubles, although sometimes gets the memory bird first. I am working with the whistles, so I don't have him stopping half way down the field, turning around and waiting for further instructions, but I am working on that, and like I said, I don't have a soul around her to show me how to do that. The younger dog is also picking up birds, although at first she wanted to toss it into the air and play, she was corrected verbally and did bring it back. I toss a small bumber out to her for fun, and she brings it back, and is starting to give it to hand. I want her to bring it to my left side, but she is going to the r ight. I am going to attach a long line and reel her in next time, so she will go on the left.

good luck in teaching your dog. I do believe you can teach your dog to do anything, but it is giong to take some time and lots of patience and consistancy. Love your dog, and he will love doing something for you in return.

take care.

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
training

debbie h,

Welcome aboard. We have a rule around here, after your 8th post we get to pick on you! Big smile Like your antelope! On the Richard Wolters book, I haven't read it. Have read his "Gun Dog" tho and can't recommend it, he's a bit to tuff for my taste. Again, I haven't read "Water Dog". There are some good books out there and the best I read on retrievers was by a guy that does Goldens. Can't remember his name but will pass it on if I remember it. What impressed me was he trains gently.

I don't know what you use your labs for but I'm pretty breed specific. That is my pointers point and retrievers retrieve. One big problem with any breed is trainers that set their dogs up to fail. Most do it unknowingly, some on porpose believeing they'll teach the dog something. Get the dog to do it wrong then punish it is their theory. Remember this, for every minute you spend punishing your dog, you need to spend two days petting it.

Key point here. Retrievers retrieve, period. Don't teach retrieving with a dead bird. Something goes wrong and it could associate it with the bird in it's mouth. Use the retrieving dummy until they are fool proof and then switch over to birds and start with frozen birds. Frozen birds because most dogs won't munch on them thus starting a bad habit. Don't pull anything from their mouth, it could turn into a game you'll wish never started. Teach them to release on command, it's painfully easy to do. If your's don't, get back and I'll tell you how.

See ya!

PS,
Just re-reading another thread and there was the guy I'm talking about, James Spencer. Him I like!

Offline
Location: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 05/11/2006
Posts: 13
training

Hey Don, thanks for the reply and the compliment on the Antelope.

I don't mind bieng picked on, cause I got a bag full of them to share as well!! neener!
I have been training Riley with bumpers all along. He has just recently (twice) gone out with the frozen birds. I have taught him and am teaching Pyper to have a very gentle mouth, which they both have. I don't play tug with the dogs, and I don't allow anyone else to either. Can't eat feathers right? The dogs do however like to tug with themselves, and I think that is ok. I read the Water dog, and wasn't sure on some of the things in it, so I got the video. I learn better with hands on training. I have just recently learned that there is a difference between field training and working and hunting certificates. I want my dog to love what he is doing, so I'll stick with the WC and HC for now. I think the field work is alot more strict and we are not ready for that. I like the gentle approach as well. My dogs are very important to me, so its very important that they are happy. The breeder I got the Riley from is a field trainer, and it was very hard to see what they do. I left the dog there for a couple of weeks to see about getting some bird training ( before I knew the difference), and when I went to pick him up, the dog was getting the bumpers, but there was no spirit, and it looked like he was only getting it because he had to. He used e collars. I am sure they have there place, and I am not against them, but right now, its not for us.

Well, got some more lurking around to do, thanks for the information , I really appreciate it.

take care.

Don Fischer's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Antelope, Ore
Joined: 03/24/2005
Posts: 3173
training

debbie,

I never trialed Labs, but have done a lot of pointers in AKC, NSTRA and AKC hunting tests. Have also judged them all and have seen some really horrible things, also some great dogs. Problem with the trial game and the hunting dog test's is that most people seem to forget what is really important and want dog's winning to young. I've always felt that the best dogs are trained to do what they were bred to do and at some point they will let you know if their trial quality; most dogs aren't truely trial quality even tho they can compete. Then some dogs that may have had greatness in them have been ruined by overzelious owners with trophy's on their minds.

If you left your dog with a retriever trainer in the begining and he seemed to lack life a couple weeks later, it's possible there's a reason for it. Retriever's retrieve and some, more than we'd like, trainer's use the first week for what is called "Hell Week". What it is is force retrieve training administered in one week! That is hell!!!!!! The theory is that customer's want to see progress when they come back so the dog pay's for it. Force retrieve training is punishment training but done properly, the dog doesn't suffer a lot, just thinks it does. A well done force retrieved dog you could not spot other than it does not fail! Should one hedge on a retrieve, the trainer mearly touches it's ear or it's foot and problem corrceted. Depends on weather the dog was done with the "ear pinch" or the "nerve hitch".

The dog that loses his spirt, either got "hell week" or the trainer did force it but quit to soon. The thing about force training is that once started, it must be completed. And it should never be done by anyone short on patience or in a big hurry.

Sound's like your doing great, keep it up!!!! Thumbs up

Don

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
Virginia Deer Hound Training SeasonRoot'em Up Kennels101/11/2010 15:51 pm
New Puppym.parker_jr312/08/2011 09:15 am
OUTFITTING & GUIDE TRAININGELM606/12/2008 15:09 pm
Hunt Training GroupPackInLight007/15/2012 16:07 pm
Looking for a bird dog training school in Central Wisconsinbuzz301/06/2006 17:54 pm