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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

And when all the armchair quarterbacking and second guessing the behaviours and split second discissions of responders is over, the long and short of the matter is the suspect had a plan and with even the simpliest of minds(this guy wasn't stupid) it is extremely easy to cause devestation.
And it can happen again tomorrow with twice as many deaths, just need another idiot with another plan.
All the police and all the specialized services available to them, cannot respond quick enough to neutralize a threat before the supects objective is achieved to a degree seen in Virginia.

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

Definitely I am `armchairing' from across the country.

But still dumbfounded.

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

Just got an email from [my] Univ Administration ...

Quoting:

In broad terms, our procedure in time of emergency is to immediately gather that core team and all relevant facts and information, assess the situation, take swift action to minimize or mitigate loss of any kind, communicate, stabilize the situation and move to recovery.

In my `armchair' role - the above betrays the problem: while the big-wigs all get together and decide what action to take - the people who we pay to `serve and protect' - should be already taking care of the problem, and, in fact, problem taken care of. In something like this - gathering the core team already takes too long. This was a single wacked out person - not an air-inserted enemy force battalion. If dozens and dozens of law enforcement are available - yeah, call `em in, but IMO it was only necessary in the mean time to get a few brave ones in there FAST. Maybe this is old-school, cold, and hard-core - but if the first few law enforcement `fall' on the way in - that's what they are there for. (They do carry guns, and many of them wear vests.)

Well, forgive me in advance for all the toes I have stepped on.

I better just shut up.

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

The fact that the gunman had two handguns, both very distinct in reports, wouldn't help either. Officers arriving would probably assume the gunman and others officers were exchanging fire within the building, and when figured out,too late.
But assuming can get everybody dead quicker and may or may not have been the case.

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

Yes I think that would be a good idea.

Everyone is quick to jump on the police without knowing all the facts or how things work................ie, procedure they are suppose to follow with armed suspects in buildings with people, where hostages situations can occur, and where they have no idea what is being used for firepower or the number of suspects.

In this particular situation it may well be that a couple of officers could have gone in, found the guy and perforated him a half dozen times and ended it. They didn't know what they were dealing with however. If it was a couple of guys with semi-automatic rifles or worse......it would be a couple of dead officers to add to the toll. That doesn't accomplish much............and by the way, the average vest being worn by patrol officers will not protect them against larger caliber rifles.

Procedure these days calls for containing the building and calling in the SWAT, ERT or what ever the hell the tactical unit is called locally, and let them enter the building with better firepower and protective gear.

Suggesting that ("but if the first few law enforcement `fall' on the way in - that's what they are there for.") a few officers being killed is acceptable is asinine. Get a grip on it.

What happened was tragic. But running off half cocked and pointing fingers in this fashion is not productive and is the same type of emotional response we see from the anti-gun lobby.

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

I'm not trying to be callous to law enforcement officers - and I certainly wouldn't want ANY to fall or otherwise be casualties. I'm just trying to reconcile what information we have to date. Where were they? Their role is `To Serve and Protect'. This is what I am trying to reconcile. Every pistol report that reached the ears of officers in the area was another student getting whacked. Let the facts roll in - and, yes, I need to log off, turn off my computer, AND GET A GRIP.

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

I agree that in a situation where everyone (well, almost everyone) had been disarmed by law, that the Police should be REQUIRED to guarantee the students safety. Sadly, that is not the case. The police cannot (and are not even lawfully obligated to) protect you. It is very seldom that they can stop a crime. Mostly they fill out the paperwork after the fact and (often) apprehend the perpetrator.

At Columbine they waited outside the school for quite a while waiting for orders to go in (it appears that also waited at VT). If I remember correctly, when they did go in at Columbine the massacre was over. Would an armed teacher have been able to stop the killers? Possibly. Would SEVERAL armed teachers been able to? Very likely.

I am not bashing the police. I'm very sure that many of them who had been ordered to wait outside those buildings were in a fury to get in there and do something.

Gun Free Zones sound good but are the worst possible way to protect a school.

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech
Roach711 wrote:
...
Gun Free Zones sound good but are the worst possible way to protect a school.

There is an article over on WorldNetDaily (wnd.com) about a town that required all households to own firearms - and it's been 25 years murder free.

In one of my earlier posts I said that `as a professor - I am not 100% comfortable with students carrying' ... but considering the alternative of what can happen in a gun free zone where police hesitate (for whatever reason), and allow a maniac to operate without restraint, I would have to accept it.

(edited, by S.H.)

Whoa, what a relief. I was talking with my dad about the matter. He is `old school' also.

I am relieved as follows:

1. I inherited my thinking from him (though, perhaps sadly, not necessarily his tact.)

2. He was in the infantry. When they heard shooting (it meant someone was being shot at) they rushed in and stopped it. He was also a smoke-jumper / fire fighter (and has written a popular book on the subject). When someone saw smoke (that meant there was a fire) - they just rushed and put it out.

So, while others are deciding what to do - I hope there are others who simply know what to do - and do it.

Now I can `stop watching this topic'.

SH

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

Hello everybody,

This drama inspire to me much sadness Cry

I hope this event will not causes modifications of your firearms laws Shame on You! I don't know what the US medias say about the firearms laws in the state of Virginia, but in France immediately after the first TV report about the murders at Virginia Tech the 2nd report who followed denounced the too easy access to buy firearms. In the opinion of french TV the culprit isn't the gunner but the gun, it's disconcerting Brick Wall,)

During the days who followed this event, the french press explain there are more than 10000 shooting ranges in USA and that it's an explanation (as well as the permissive legislation on the weapons) concerning the dramas of Virginia Tech and Columbine Brick Wall,) As I said on a french shooting forum, it's ridiculous to associate criminality and high number of shooting range in a state Shame on You! Our TV press (and more generally the french press) dictates the Truth about the danger of the possession of weapons by citizens eye roll

Sunday we have presidential election, and a communist candidate (who fortunately does not have any chance to be elected) profited of the drama of Virginia Tech to say she wants to prohibit compltely firearms in France sad These dramas are a chance for the anti-guns in all the world. In France our legislation is very strict (particulary for handguns, longuns are more accessible), but for the anti-guns it's not enough Brick Wall,)

Fortunately you have the 2nd amendment and the NRA (hated by french press) so the consequences should be limited concerning right to firearms. In Belgium last year there was a similar event (a guy hardly left an arms manufacture with a rifle killed several people, and a few days after thieir firearm legislation who was like US legislation (very liberal) was modified and is now worse than in France.

Friendly greetings of a french hunter and shooter in these diificult moments for our community !

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Tragedy at Virginia Tech

Thanks for the post, French hunter, from across the pond.

From what I've read it seems to me that the European view of these types of shootings is even more reactionary than are most liberal press in the states.

It is sad that in times like this many sides start pumping the political mileage to be gained from such disasters, even before the coffins are in the ground. This seems to have become the status quo.

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