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Ssp
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Location: North Idaho, Steve
Joined: 07/14/2006
Posts: 48
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

I'm wondering first how many of you are traditional hunter vrs the more modern inlines. Also what do you guys think about Idahos new restrictions on inlines and no longer being able to particapate in the muzzle loader season using an inline muzzle loader?
Sorry if this is in a different thread already
for those of you who don't know what I'm talking about see the links below

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/apps/releases/view.cfm?NewsID=3668
http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/legislation.html

Personely I thing that the hpmuzzleloading site is a bit over the top on a few issues but I mostly agree. I'm glad that Idaho does not allow scopes and think it should stay that way.
What does everbody think about this??

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 11/09/2005
Posts: 166
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

Personally, I think that if you're after a modern hunting experience then you should hunt during the rifle season. I don't see anything wrong with prohibiting sabots, scopes, and inlines.

Now, maybe you would say, "I don't want to hunt during the rifle season because it's too crowded!" Well, those who hunt with traditional equipment probably feel that "their" season is becoming too crowded and want to weed out the folks who have no real appreciation of the muzzleloader tradition, but are just there for an earlier and less crowded season. I'm not saying that's "right," but I surely wouldn't say it's "wrong," either.

Maybe what is needed are two different muzzleloader seasons. One that prohibits all of these things, and one that doesn't.

Ssp
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Location: North Idaho, Steve
Joined: 07/14/2006
Posts: 48
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

I agree with some of what you are saying but I still don't consider my inline any less of a traditional weapon. Yes it is a more efficient muzzle loader than an old flint lock but I'll bet that every traditionalist here has a much more modern computer today as well. It may very well be one part of the traditional "experience" but other than looks its is still a muzzle loader.
I'll also bet that most of you don't wear your old leathers and coon skin caps out hunting iether.(that is just another part of the traditional experience).
I will admit that I do not no much about the old smoke poles and hopefully I can learn some stuff here. I have loaded and shot them many times but have never hunted with one. I have always listened to the stories of many friends and friends of my parents talk about the one that got away. I can't even guess how many of these stories I've heard(hundreds) of the dear that were hit and never found because of a very poor blood trail or none at all due to poor penetrating lead balls with less than perfect accuracy.
I've read a few posts that people are saying how accurate their smoke pole is out to a hundred yards, this is something of a myth to me and I am very interested to learn more on the loads and tighter twisted barrels.
What kind of a blood trail can I expect to get if I make a good shot at 75 yards using a 50 cal smoke pole and say, pure lead conical type bullets? will I get a pass through shot to leave a good blood trail? At what distance would you say this type of setup would max out at on a white tail buck, 50,75,or 100 yards while still delivering a gauranteed fatal shot.(with good bullet placement)
The bottom line is that I will now become a traditional musket gun hunter in 2007, that is not much time to learn, buy and practice. Under no circumstance will you catch me running the gauntlet with the thousands of rifle hunters trying to sneak up to around 400 or 500 yards to make my kill!!!

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 11/09/2005
Posts: 166
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

Personally, I don't have a problem with inlines. I do think it's a good idea to restrict things like scopes, and smokeless powder. I'm on the fence about sabots and pelletized powder (both illegal here in Colorado).

The thing about accuracy is that you have to match the twist of the barrel to the type of projectile you are using, and then add in the powder load. Fast twist and a heavy charge will cause problems. For round ball you want a slow twist (60:1 or even slower) and the heavier your charge the slower the twist should be. For conicals you want a faster twist, and the longer the projectile (relative to its diameter) the faster the twist should be.

Lots of people buy muzzle loaders with a 48:1 twist, which is a compromise. It's made to work okay with round balls and okay with conicals. But it is a COMPROMISE, which means it won't work really great with either. Generally, with this kind of twist, I have seen them work best with very short conicals.

My own rifle has a 32:1 twist and works very well with moderately long conicals.

Of course, there's no such thing as a "guaranteed fatal shot." I mean, I can't even GUARANTEE you a fatal shot with a .375 H&H from 50 yards on a whitetail! But, in general, a .50 caliber muzzle loader, shooting conicals, should be good on whitetail out to 150 yards or so if the hunter does his part. With round balls I'd probably shorten that up to 100-125 yards. Personally, though, the longest shot I've ever taken at an elk was right close to 75 paces.

Ssp
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Location: North Idaho, Steve
Joined: 07/14/2006
Posts: 48
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

thanks for the info. My choice of wording was very poor with the Guaranteed bit, I've been hunting a long time and know what you are saying. I guess I am really wondering what the expected penetration would be if shot placement is good (no bones are hit). I'm also talking about a traditional muzzle loader and no sabots or copper plated/all copper bullets. You see, I have to conform to the new rules and only have a short amount of time to learn the differences and what is fact from fiction.
I must admit that the more I think about this new restriction the more I like it. I still have along way to go cause I was extremely upset on the change at first, mostly because the state of Idaho's reasoning has no merit or statistical data to back up what they are saying. Darn politicians Brick Wall,)

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Location: Canada
Joined: 12/26/2006
Posts: 323
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

There are pros and cons to it all I know...........but in the end I hate to see this type of thing happening. Lots of older folk could use a scope and know those that have put one on the older style mz because they can't use iron sights all that well.

Most guys I have seen shooting in-lines aren't much good past 75 or 100 yards anyways.

So if I have an in-line with a cocking rear hammer like an Omega and just use iron sights why should anyone care?

Next we should have archery hunters pushing to ban the compounds and only allow traditional stick bows with cedar arrows.

We are once again back to being our own worst enemies.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 11/09/2005
Posts: 166
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

I'm one of those "older guys." My eyes aren't what they were and open sights are a problem for me. But Colorado doesn't allow scopes during the muzzle loader season. The solution? Peep sights! They are VERY traditional, they are legal, and they work WONDERFULLY!

Ssp
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Location: North Idaho, Steve
Joined: 07/14/2006
Posts: 48
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

I just read that Colorada approved scoped muzzle loaders baced on a law suite.
As far as poor eyesight goes, If it's that bad, should you be hunting?? Why can't someone just wear corrective lenses, contacts or glasses?? I know plenty who do. I have great eyesight so I truly don't understand the problem but I would not have a problem if some very specific lines were drawn and an eye doctors note was accompanied for a disability permit for this use. Archery hunters who are disabled and have the doctors show that they have lost griping power or feeling below a certain percentage can use a crossbow. I have no problem with this as long as someone can't take advantage of it they don't need it.
Idaho just made the archery restrictions less than before for the benefit of the more modern compound. I have been told by a F&G officer that the decision was based on how much more efficient the weapons were and they are cleaner killing machines. Hmmmmmm....... Wouldn't that same argument hold true for the Inline muzzle loaders?????
As far as an inline goes there is not an inline on the market that would be leagal. The Omega fires only 209 primers and I believe that the breach is closed from the elements, both of these are also illegal in Idaho.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 11/09/2005
Posts: 166
Traditional or inlines??Idaho
Ssp wrote:
I just read that Colorada approved scoped muzzle loaders baced on a law suite.

Don't know where you read it, but it's not true. As of now scopes are still illegal during the muzzleloader season in Colorado.

Ssp
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Location: North Idaho, Steve
Joined: 07/14/2006
Posts: 48
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

I read that on another web site that said Colorado officials announced plans to allow scoped muzzle loader within the 2007 year. I'll try to find wich site that was on. If I can retrace my steps. I'm not saying to count on it, just that I read that somewhere

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Location: Muskoka Ontario
Joined: 09/04/2007
Posts: 351
Traditional or inlines??Idaho

I'm a traditional side lock type but I hunt with a guy that uses an inline to me to each his own. The chalanges I put up there are my chalanges not someone elses, I'm not in a compitition. I use what I use for my own benifit and If some one wants to use an Inline than so be it.
Some states have a flintlock only season mabe if traditionalists they should loby for sidlock only.
Personaly I dont think gun owners should be divided the anties are already trying to do this to us already ( divide and conker), we stay stronger if we stick together.
F.K.

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