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Location: Summit, IL
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Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs

Malt,
You may wish to look at the laws in your OWN state before you wish to speak out of ignorance. Fact Number one, unless you are a vet or a gov official in the state you may NOT cause the death of anothers dog .. Law is right here

§ 822.004. DESTRUCTION OF DOG. The destruction of a dog
under this subchapter must be performed by:
(1) a licensed veterinarian;
(2) personnel of a recognized animal shelter or humane
society who are trained in the humane destruction of animals; or
(3) personnel of a governmental agency responsible for
animal control who are trained in the humane destruction of
animals.

Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989.
Renumbered from V.T.C.A., Health & Safety Code § 822.003 by Acts
1997, 75th Leg., ch. 99, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.

Very doubtful will a hunting dog attack a person without any provocation and anyone with any dog knowledge knows this so dont try to pull the "It was attacking me" card out because its not gonna work.

Texas does NOT have a state wide leash law nor does it have ANY laws regarding a leash be on any hunting dogs. You may want to do a little research before you speak up on stuff you do not know about. NO state that allows dog running requires you to have your dogs on a leash. That would be a little on the stupid side dont you think? Kinna hard to run coon, deer, rabbit while its leashed. The ONLY dogs that have a state wide leash law are dangerous dogs. Dogs that have already been deemed dangerous by nature and have no other value or use than attack. That is STRAIGHT from Texas laws... You may wish to check on that yourself there Malt.

All hunting dogs in the state of Virginia (where the thread starter is located) are required to have a hunting collar stamped with the owners name, address, and contact number where they can be reached. Like J and I both said, catchum and call either the owner or the Game warden. If the Game Warden doesnt wish to follow up on his legally obligated duties then you have a good case in court to file suit against them and the owners. As long as you have followed all the rules in trying to resolve this problem with the animals and they havn't stopped running them on your property, then you have the legal right to take it to court. You will NOT however have the legal right to shoot or cause harm to said animal or you will be facing a lawsuit yourself.

Here is a Q/A from another forum on this exact subject between a property owner and a Lawyer (not the father of a Lawyer)

Q) Mark , I as a former pet owner I don't want my dog shot either, and since your an attorney and have had experience in these cases. Let me ask you your personal and professional opinion on this.

First of all I am not against hunting with dogs , if done right it can be fun , i have done it before , but let me ask you this.

What about people such as myself and a group of friend s have a couple of clubs , we spend close to $ 50,000 a year in leases , spring and fall plots , minerals , trying to have the best hunting possible , we like our area to be disturbed as little as possible. So that the deer are in a natural state , We have approx 6000 acres in one club , 1500 in another club . Both are strictly still hunting only. We do not want dogs , hunting or strays disturbing our property .

What rights do we have not to have our property and privacy violated?

And if someones dogs are caught on our property what can we do to fine or penalize their owners since according to the laws others are penalized for shooting someone else dogs ?

Just courious , what the peoples rights are in this instance , or is there nothing that can be done ?

DW

A)Those are fair questions.........and sure, things can be done.

First, I would humanely collect the dog(s) and hopefully they'll have i.d. collars on their necks so that you can contact the owner. Assuming the owner cares about their dog(s), they'll be glad you called and apologize for your inconvenience.

Second, and if the problem persists, and you've done all you can do in a neighorly way, I would press charges against the owners for trespass and rather than return the dogs to these habitual/repeat offenders, I would take them to the local animal shelter......We all know what happens there if a dog is not reclaimed in a timely manner, but then again, for a repeat offender, how much does he really care about the dog anyway if he subjects it to that possibility?

Those are some of my thoughts,

Mark.

President, Mississippi Hunting Dog Association, Inc.

Now thats about all there is to say on that subject Malt... If you wish to counter with an INFORMED responce it will be welcomed.

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Joined: 11/01/2007
Posts: 92
Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs

You're outta your leauge here pal!
Let those unleashed/unconfined mutts whom are not under your control come onto my patch. And we'll see what your internet legal advice is worth!

neener! neener! neener!

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs

As I said before. You have the ethics of a gnat Malt. Keep that train of thought there buddy. Im sure one day it will come back to bite you in the butt. Bad ethics and poor values almost always do.

You have the typical responces of someone that has no clue about the ethics of a true outdoorsman. Uneducated and typicly unwelcomed as well. You blast off at people when they SHOW you that you are incorrect (this aint the first time) and come back with the responces of a 3 year old. So go ahead and shoot other people dogs Malt. Im sure it will get you far in life.

CVC
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Interesting article on the subject

PilotOnline.com Dog-hunting issue could result in new Virginia law

Jack Reynolds, “Master of the Hounds” at Roger’s Hunt Club in Isle of Wight County, said the club uses 24 dogs to hunt deer. MORT FRYMAN | THE VIRGINIAN-PILOT

By LEE TOLLIVER, The Virginian-Pilot
© June 24, 2007

The family oyster roast was going well on Jeff McDermott's small piece of rural Gloucester County property.

Then came the hunters, driving a truck with two dead deer sprawled across the dog box. Members of a hunt club, they were looking for their dogs.

McDermott said he asked the hunters to leave that afternoon five years ago. He said they refused until they got their dogs.

"I tried to work it out with the club," McDermott said, "but they wouldn't cooperate."

So McDermott hired a lawyer and filed trespassing charges against the club at the Gloucester County Sheriff's Department.

Citing a county nuisance ordinance, the court ruled in his favor. The judge issued a restraining order intended to keep the hunt club off McDermott's property. But several days later, club members were back on his land.

McDermott said he went back to the judge, who then held the hunt club president in contempt of court.

"The judge gave him 30 days, but suspended it," McDermott said. "He told the president that if he came back into court, he'd serve the full 30 days."

Through the years, things have gotten better, McDermott said. But dogs still appear on his land from time to time. And he has seen hunters attempting to retrieve dogs without his permission.

"The problem with the fact that there are no laws in Virginia preventing such activities puts the burden of law enforcement on me," McDermott said. "It's up to me to catch them and take them to court."

In Virginia, as in several other Southern states, that could be about to change.

Using dogs to hunt deer is a centuries-old tradition in the South.

But only nine states in the country currently allow the use of dogs to hunt deer. And four of those have enacted laws to protect land owners.

Florida and Georgia have enacted the strictest laws. South Carolina has laws pending.

It is likely that Virginia will be next.

Currently in Virginia, there are no laws preventing hunting dogs from going on land where hunting is not allowed.

And hunters are permitted to go on private land to retrieve their dogs as long as the hunters aren't carrying weapons. If a landowner objects, a state wildlife law enforcement officer can escort the hunter onto the land.

New laws in Florida and Georgia require hunters to have access to a minimum of a thousand acres to use dogs to hunt deer. Clubs also have to purchase a permit to use dogs to hunt deer. And they are required to prove they have permission to hunt on the land. Every club member has to have a permit to hunt, and clubs are responsible for purchasing permits for each dog.

In both states, violations of the laws, or continued complaints from surrounding land owners, could result in fines and the cancellation of permits.

Like Virginia, North Carolina currently has no laws concerning hunting deer with dogs, and no laws are pending.

Bob Duncan, head of the game division for the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries, is expected to propose a committee to look into potential laws that will protect Virginia land owners at the department's July 17 board meeting.

The game department board would have to approve the proposal before a committee is formed.

When using dogs to hunt deer, club members on one end of a property release their animals, which then chase deer to the other end. There, a group of "shooters" is poised. When the tactic works as planned, the dogs chase deer to the shooters.

But often, the process takes both dogs and deer - and sometimes hunters - onto private land where clubs have no permission to hunt.

Modern-minded clubs use radio-collar tracking devices and follow their dogs to openings where deer likely will be chased - again, often on land where they have not been granted hunting rights.

But as large spans of private land where hunting once was permitted have diminished because of growing population, more and more land owners have refused clubs the right to tread on their smaller tracts of land.

In the last year in Virginia, the issue of dog control and privacy has become a hot topic.

"We need to have a comprehensive approach," Duncan said. "We're going to identify the stakeholders in this issue and meet with them to hear their sides. Then we will form an advisory group that would come up with some ideas that we can present for public input."

The game department's public comment portion of its Web site - http://www.dgif.state.va.us - currently has a thread several hundred posts long, with landowners and hunters arguing the issue.

"There are some strong-held feelings, that's for sure," Duncan said. "Houndsmen feel threatened. They think people are trying to do away with their sport.

"And landowners want their privacy."

In Florida and Georgia, hunt clubs initiated the dialogue for change.

In Isle of Wight County, Jack Reynolds smiled as Mikey - a beagle with the Roger's Hunt Club - licked at his hat.

Healthy and energetic, Mikey is one of 24 dogs the club uses to hunt deer.

Reynolds, the club's "Master of the Hounds," said the club's 50 members are glad the issue has been brought up at the game department.

"It's good that this is being looked into," Reynolds said. "There are clubs that abuse what is a good, traditional sport.

"We have 1,300 acres, but the dogs can get off that land pretty quickly. As a club, we have gone out and met with all the surrounding land owners and let them know who we are. We respect their rights.

"But there are some clubs that don't."

Reynolds said the biggest concern hunt clubs have is that legislators could enact laws preventing all use of dogs for hunting.

Duncan said that the game department taking a proactive stance will help ensure that the tradition of using dogs to hunt deer survives.

"The landscape has changed, and using dogs to hunt deer hasn't," Duncan said. "Lots of clubs have lost much of their hunting lands, and all these different dynamics are coming together with an increasing population.

"We think it's a good idea to get the process started to benefit both land owners and hunters."

So does Curt Lytle, a professional bass fisherman and lifelong hunter who owns 157 acres in Zuni.

Lytle said the issue isn't about hunting.

"It's about privacy," said Lytle, who said his two young daughters have been scared by dogs running onto his property. "I don't feel like my kids or my family are safe with hunting dogs coming onto my land.

"I have bears, snakes... all kinds of wildlife here. But hunting dogs are the biggest liability to my family."

But because of Virginia's lack of laws, Lytle has no control over the situation.

To Lytle, McDermott and other land owners, privacy almost takes a back seat to liability.

In North Carolina three years ago, International Paper was sued by a hunt club it leased land to when a club member was hurt in a vehicular accident on the property.

International Paper no longer allows hunting with dogs on many of its tracts.

For Lytle, the issue seems clear.

"We bought this piece of land, and I've been turning it into a wildlife sanctuary for my family to enjoy," Lytle said. "Some of the hunt clubs have been great about respecting our privacy. Others have not.

"I don't want to see a ban on using dogs to hunt deer. But there is a real issue in that the law currently says I have no control over who comes on my land. That needs to change."

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Posts: 92
Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs
cam69conv wrote:
As I said before. You have the ethics of a gnat Malt. Keep that train of thought there buddy. Im sure one day it will come back to bite you in the butt. Bad ethics and poor values almost always do.

You have the typical responces of someone that has no clue about the ethics of a true outdoorsman. Uneducated and typicly unwelcomed as well. You blast off at people when they SHOW you that you are incorrect (this aint the first time) and come back with the responces of a 3 year old. So go ahead and shoot other people dogs Malt. Im sure it will get you far in life.

Other people especially you should keep their dogs under control if they are so dear to them....don't they worry about their beloved hounds stepping into a coyote trap on my land? Don't they worry about those beloved hounds getting ground to mush by my Herford bulls? Maybe all they're truely worried about is if they get the deer or coon those hounds were sent in there for to begin with.
Fact is Cam69 you can't have your Walkers under your control if you don't have them penned up or on a leash. Oh! but you claim they're trained to hunt coon well just how do you think that will hold up in court when the same dog laws represent pit bull owners whom claim their dogs are only trained to clap down on command,or the little old lady walking her beagle named Daisy an the beagle grabs the neighbors pet rabbit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your childish analogy of your hounds not being at fault for trailing onto someone elses' property though moronic does have a tad of merit.....SEE IT IS THE OWNERS FAULT FOR ALLOWING THEM TO TRAIL OUT OF THEIR CONTROL TO BEGIN WITH!! Now Cam69 those beloved $5k mutts of yours are at risk of the S.S.S. because of your selfish behavior not theirs. Don't try pawning the blame off on someone else for your poor judgement!!!!!!! Talk to the Hand neener!

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Location: Summit, IL
Joined: 10/22/2006
Posts: 706
Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs

Ok this boy just aint figured out how to read yet has he. #1 They are NOT held under the same law as the pit's. There is an amendment under the leash law (in states that have them) applying to huntsmans hounds towit they are not required to be leashed but to have ID tags mounted to a strong collar.

I myself dont hunt my dogs anywhere Id be worried about them if they got on a long chase on a coon. I know all the property owners where I hunt and have their permission (they usually hunt with me) to be there. Im always under full control of my dogs because I train them well. I use a shock collar at low hit for when they stray out to far. Yanks them right in. Rarely do I hunt where they couldnt go on a 2 mile run and be fine. My precious dogs are always in my full control. Again you are speaking on a subject that you obviously have NO knowledge of Malt. My point has been made clearly and concisely yet you keep wanting to lash out that someones dog on your land will get killed. YOU are the law breaker in that instance as I have CLEARLY shown. If they stepped in one of your yote traps then yeah well.. Not much anyone could say about that. But the fact is you were stateing that you would just, as you put it, "SSS" them. Your a law breaker and an unethical person in my book and thats just how it is! Like it or not THATS THE LAW!!!

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Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs

I wasn't going to jump in the middle of this hornet's nest!! However I have very strong feelings about dogs that are allowed to run amock. First let me state that I love dogs, so don't label me a dog hater.

Dogs must to be under the owners control at all times, period. If they are not, many states do allow a property owner to take matters into their own hands. Here in Colorado if dogs are harrassing livestock, the rancher has the right to put them down - and they do. Same goes for harrassing wildlife, its not allowed and is against the law. It doesn't matter if the dog is a highly trained expensive purebred, if its running amock it will be dealt with.

The bottom line is that if a dog owner values the dog's life, then he will take good care of it and make sure its not getting into trouble. If states have laws that protect a dog over a property owner's rights, then I say those all need to changed - promptly! No dog should have more rights than a person.

Cam there is nothing unethical about protecting your own property.

Lets keep this discussion civil. Name calling and bashing is uncalled for.

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Posts: 92
Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs
cam69conv wrote:
..... Im always under full control of my dogs because I train them well. I use a shock collar at low hit for when they stray out to farquote]

Brick Wall,)

Nedd I say anymore???/

Know what Cam69 follow those dogs onto my place and I'll let you watch!

PS. Bring your own shovel though....mine is nearly worn out!! Evil!

CVC
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Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs

Cowgal, I agree that dogs should be under control at all times, but it appears from that article I found on the subject that hunting dogs are allowed to run free onto other people's property and the dog owners are permitted to trespass onto the property to retrieve the dogs.

Makes no sense to me.

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Those Pesky, Pesky Deer Dogs

CVC, I understand that the laws are different in other states. It makes no sense to me either. Thankfully that is not the case here in Colorado, or most of the western states. I'd have a very hard time with that law if I lived in one of the "other" states that does not put my rights first.

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