46 replies [Last post]
CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Terrorist or Hero?

The thread on the death of Tiller started talking about terroist and it made me think. Not wanting to hijack the thread, I started this one.

Expat started discussing how the liberals want any crimes against them catagorized as terrorist acts. This made me think of hate crimes. What nonsense.

Aren't all violent crimes hate crimes. Man, I love you so I'm going to shoot you and take your money????

Bunny said

Quote:
Anyone who uses violence to make a political point is a terrorist and therefore despicable.

While I see his point, I can see that it also depends on which side you're on.

For example, let's say during the time when slavery was legal, someone burned down a courthouse where a black man was just sentenced to hang for running away. They did it to make a politcal point that slavery and a death sentence for running away was wrong. Terrorist or hero?

Or how about a Chinese student that hurls a moltov cocktail at its government's tank to protest the lack of freedom in that country. Terrorist or hero?

To be clear, in the case of the man that killed Tiller, I think there is no grey area there. The man that killed him committed a heinous act with no redeeming value.

So, the question is, are all violent acts to make political statements despicable or are some noble? Does it just depend on which side of the issue you're on?

Offline
Moderator
Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
Terrorist or Hero?

Heroic message but still a murderer and should face the consequences of his actions.
If his intent was to sacrifice himself in order to save unborn babies lives then I would have to agree with most opinions that I have been hearing on the radio, letters to the editor pages, and Internet, he did what he felt was the only way to stop Dr Tiller from murdering anymore babies and taking out a murderer is not always such a bad thing.
Of course Irony is, now he is also a murderer.

I am pro life when it comes to unborn babies. How could anyone but the overtly evil kill unborn babies and then prance around so proudly for it?
Well mabe his supporters but I consider then just as evil as him.

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Terrorist or Hero?

J, I wasn't talking about the guy that killed Tiller in this tread. As I said, to me it is clear, he is no hero, but the other parts, specifically Bunny's and Expat's remarks intrigued me.

Is Bunny correct, is everyone who commits an act of violence to make a political point despicable or does it depend on the situation?

Offline
Moderator
Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
Terrorist or Hero?

oops, sorry.
Oops! Oops!

Offline
Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Terrorist or Hero?
Quote:
is everyone who commits an act of violence to make a political point despicable or does it depend on the situation?

Well it all depends on your point of view. I happen to think killing all those men women and children in the Federal Center in Oklahoma was a terrorist act, but I guess if you don't I certainly respect your right to have an opinion.

Bunny thinks it's just left wing whining. I don't know.

I guess we have laws against murder in America. I must be some sort of bleeding heart liberal, because I think right wing terrorist muderers should be locked up where they can't harm anyone.

Just my opinion, you all are free to support folks who murder all you care to.

I know what you are going to say next, If Mother Teresa steps on a ant while walking isn't that like killing a Doctor who is performing a legal operation we don't agree with on someone who wants the Doctor to do what he's doing?

I'd just have to disagree with that bit of moral equivalency.

CVC
CVC's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Terrorist or Hero?
JTapia wrote:
oops, sorry.
Oops! Oops!

Oh, no, I'm sorry. I should have been more clear Oops!

I stayed away from Tiller's killer because I don't think any rational person could possible think he is a hero. I've yet to hear one group, pro-life or otherwise come out in support of him. In fact, all have publicly denounced his act of violence.

Another one is Timothy McVeigh - I don't think anyone, especially those in mainstream America, think his act of violence was anything but cowardice.

But are all that clear cut?

I know on the left that there are those that hold certain individuals and groups in high esteem because fo their political acts of violence. Of course, there is Bill Ayers, but you have the green groups that burn car dealerships that are heros among the greenies.

I asked previously if all people, regardless of the reason, who commit violent political acts are despicable?

I guess another question is when is domestic violence justified or is it ever justified?

I think we hold people of nonviolence like Martin Luther King, Ghandi and others in high esteem but does a situation ever become so dire that violence is justified?

Again, for the record let me state that Tiller's killer's act was wrong on every level. Nothing noble or heroic about it. Of course, some will suggest that pro-lifers and conservatives condone it, but those people are desparate souls in search of controversy.

Offline
Moderator
Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
Terrorist or Hero?
CVC wrote:
J, I wasn't talking about the guy that killed Tiller in this tread. As I said, to me it is clear, he is no hero, but the other parts, specifically Bunny's and Expat's remarks intrigued me.

Is Bunny correct, is everyone who commits an act of violence to make a political point despicable or does it depend on the situation?

That is kinda a double edged sword. Do not soldiers kill for political points?
If so then the answer would be, depends on the situation.
If the answer is no or they are exempt from this argument, then the answer is yes, it would be despicable.
Of course neither would preclude me from seeing it either way.

Offline
Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Terrorist or Hero?

CVC you seem to have a difficult time understanding that killing people is a bad thing, not at all like burning up car dealerships, and no, green groups dont hold them in high esteam.

Bill Ayers? Get a grip, that was 35 years ago.

Tell you what, If you ever wonder if something is a terrorist act just go ask a policeman before you do it. If he's cool with it, it's probably ok, if not you might just be breaking a law.

Why not vote. Oops you tried that, and your bitter, well get used to it, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

You see here in America we like people to obey the law, not just when they thing it's justified.

Just sayin.

cowgal's picture
Offline
Moderator
Location: Colorado
Joined: 03/10/2002
Posts: 1787
Terrorist or Hero?

CVC, tough question.

As a child I remember the riots of the '60's - they were terrifying, yet many thought the rioters and activists were heros in spite of the death and destruction. We lived in a city that had massive racial riots, with houses and vehicles being burned and people routinely beat up. Our family left in the middle of that mayhem.

Bill Ayers and his violent Weather Underground should have all gone to prison - and rotted there!

Personally, I feel there are better ways to make a statement then to destroy property - or to kill.

expatriate's picture
Offline
Location: Arizona
Joined: 10/26/2002
Posts: 3207
Terrorist or Hero?

Funny how left wingers classify one nutjob that murders an individual as terrorism, but refuse to put a cell of people committing a series of bombings in the same category.

It's called HYPOCRISY.

Let's try this one on -- here's another individual driven by religion committing murder out of political motivation. Do you think our lefty friends will be so quick to call this one terrorism?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-06-01-army-recruiter-killed_N...

Offline
Joined: 04/01/2009
Posts: 435
Terrorist or Hero?

But of course he's not one nut job but part of a larger, organised, well funded, movement that has been in existance for more than 20 years, with tons of backing from the R wing hate radio and TV.

The guy in Arkansa doesn't get much media coverage nor do those home grown jihadists in NY arrested recently because neither of them are supported by a cooridinated movement of Americans. The militias, anti abortion, pro states rights, anti tax nutters are fairly numerous and with a long history of violence against American citizens.

When we do have law breakers we bring them to trial. We have laws. It's how we do things. If they are innocent or can't be proven guilty we let them go.

Despite all the protest marches in the 60s (and that was 40 years ago) I never heard of so many people buying guns and ammunition that there was an undersupply that drove up prices. Now there is some real nuttiness.

Related Forum Threads You Might Like