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CVC
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Ex, what do you mean the

Ex, what do you mean the ratio is set quite high for buck to does?  Are you referring to the optimal number of bucks for every doe?  If so, what is that number and does it vary for white tail and mule deer and region to region.

In some areas of my state, you barely see a rut and some have blamed that on too many does to bucks.  The bucks have too many does to breed to worry about competing with other bucks to the rut is less noticiable. I don't know if this theory is valid or not, just what I heard.

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It's a management objective, not biological optimum

With more bucks per 100 does comes older age classes of bucks.  About the best you'll see in the west will be around 40 bucks per 100 does.  Some places are down in the teens.  Most places in the 20s, but the better units are managed for buck:doe ratios in the 30s and up. 

Fawns are born at roughly a 50:50 ratio, but since an area can withstand a higher harvest of bucks than does, you will never see that tight of a buck:doe ratio.  Also, with more does, they can rebound from a rough winter faster.  With more bucks comes better hunting opportunities, but slower recruitment.  And with a lower buck ratio, the more licenses you can sell.  That's why the mix of management philosophies.  Each region has their own management objectives, depending on what the public wants.  If it's more important to draw a tag every year then to have older age classes of bucks, the local manager will issue more tags and manage for a lower ratio.  Conversely, in the better units, you likely can't hunt there more than once every three years, in some cases much fewer than that.

CVC
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How does the local manager

How does the local manager know what the public wants?  Do they hold public meetings?  If so, are they really representative of the public and what the public at large wants or just those that can show up to the meeting.  Or do they do surveys to determine what the public wants?

I seem to recall a survey for WY that asked about the satisfaction of my hunt, number of animals, etc. so maybe this is how they do it?

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Man, every post I read about

Man, every post I read about this, I fall further into this black hole that is the "the great Western Hunting Trip"!

I have a question that may be directed primarily at Hawkeye... you make a great case for Colorado and I am all for planning a trip there - but you mention that certain areas in other states may have a higher chance at harvest and presumably a higher chance at a real stud...

What would these areas be, if you do not mind saying?

I have some time - I can not hunt out there in 2011... but 2012 might be an option and I would not blick at a long range plan for 2013 - and the reason I say that is that if it took me some time to build points and "earn" a hunt (or purchase??) in one of these areas, I would be all for that... since I can not go for at least 2 years anyway (fall of 2012).

If I knew what areas were even more desirable than Colorado (hey, it all sounds SUPER to me), I might be able to make a long range plan and then run it past some of the very knowledgeable guys on this forum - as a lot of you sound like you really know what is going on...

Who can help??

Thanks!

CVC
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Jim, I am living vicarously

Jim, I am living vicarously through you as you plan this hunt, so i hope you don't mind me jumping it.  I just think it is neat that you are planning a trip and have all these options to choose from.  Something I thought about as I have read your posts and comments is I wonder how much it will cost to do a pure do it yourself hunt versus a drop camp hunt or semi-guided hunt? 

Maybe some other with experience can weigh in on the pros and cons and the cost difference?  It seems that a drop camp or semi-guided hunt while costing more, may not (or may) be that much more and may eliminate some of the equipment you'll need to bring and improve the chance of sucess by providing some information on the area you'll be hunting.

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CVC, That is a great line of

CVC,

That is a great line of thought and one that had not occured to me.

One more line of research I will need to start.

One of the members on this forum has sent me some photo albums of his trips - the scenery is simply heart breakingly beautiful!

I will start down this path after supper tonight....

Thanks for a great new set of ideas that may help make some other pieces of the puzzle fall into place.

I am not giving up on the Midwest and the whitetails... I AM going back there for 2011 - I am now working on a longer range plan for out west and I do not mind at all that you are reading along and commenting... I need all the help I can get!

CVC
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Jim, this planning and

Jim, this planning and research is fun isn't it?  I will google and look on some other sites I frequent for information.  If I find anything interesting, I'll be sure to pass it along.  I'll have as much fun doing some research for you as if I was doing it for myself.

Who knows, I might just a hunt that I can't pass up and go myself.

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A lot of the information

A lot of the information about hunting Colorado can be found on Exbiologist's web site.  You may have to pay a little but you'll get a lot of information.

http://www.westernhuntingdata.com/

You can expect for the better units on archery deer hunts here in Colorado to need 1 or 2 points to draw a nonresident tag and for the rifle hunts a couple more points. 

 

 

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Western Hunting Data

Critter wrote:

A lot of the information about hunting Colorado can be found on Exbiologist's web site.  You may have to pay a little but you'll get a lot of information.

http://www.westernhuntingdata.com/

You can expect for the better units on archery deer hunts here in Colorado to need 1 or 2 points to draw a nonresident tag and for the rifle hunts a couple more points. 

 

 

I will second Ex's site! Data, data, data! ...Ex must be a numbers FREAK! ...I lose sleep working on the data for only a couple of months a year, and only in Colorado...his site has it for many states and in any manner you would like it!

 

...and by the way, there are NO deer in Colorado...don't let these guys fool you Whistling

 

JK...Good luck folks!

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Heavy C, No deer in

Heavy C,

No deer in Colorado.... hmmm, let me digest that for a moment...

Nope - having a hard time with that one!

I have glanced briefly at Ex's site and it appears to be loaded with info.

I am at least 2 years out from a hunt - I will log on again and see how long a subscription lasts, etc...

I know education and knowledge is key and I am willing to spend the time doing the research - I love data and have a great respect for it... plus I really enjoy statistics and probabilities - that sort of thing.

Ex is likely a wizard at this stuff - I can tell when I read his posts that he is an in depth man.

CVC is right - this sort of lead in is fun and really sets the stage for the actual hunt.

Jim

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