10 replies [Last post]
Tndeerhunter's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Tennessee
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 1110
Some interesting numbers

I was reading a thread on another forum where the OP said he was thinking of buying a single shot rifle that he would get two barrels for; a short range big game cartridge and a medium to long range big game cartridge.

Mentioned game was deer & black bear. He mentioned a few choices for both, among them a 45-70 for short range and a 30/06 for long. I liked this pair of selections, myself. Anyway the posts started and several stated that he'd be very sorry if he actually selected the 45-70 as it was a fierce recoil-er.

I chuckled and wrote my post saying I liked the 45-70 & 30/06 for the two choices and for the ranges he was talking, factory 300 or 405gr loads would work very well for the 45-70 and have minimal recoil. Well, did I ever hear how ridiculous I was and that the 45-70 would be just terrible in that rifle. On the other hand, many agreed all he needed was one barrel in 30/06. I still like the two barrel approach, personally.

So, I decided I'd do some checking and get some purely factual information to back my post and it's statements. The results may surprise even those who own all the rifles in question. These are all typical factory loads in same weight rifles. I cannot say I was surprised, but the numbers are certainly interesting. Here ya go:

.308 180gr @ 2600 FPS rifle weight = 8.5 pounds, recoil force = 15.8 FPE

30/06 180gr @ 2700 FPS, rifle weight = 8.5pounds, recoil force = 18.5 FPE

.358 Win 200gr @ 2490 FPS, rifle weight = 8.5 pounds, recoil force = 19.7 FPE

45-70 405gr @ 1330 FPS, rifle weight = 8.5 pounds, recoil force = 18 FPE

45-70 300gr @ 1800 FPS, rifle weight = 8.5 pounds, recoil force = 21.5 FPE

For comparison, one last cartridge:

.300WM 180gr @ 2960 FPS, rifle weight = 8.5 pounds, recoil force = 25.9 FPE

 

cowboy38231's picture
Offline
Location: West TN
Joined: 11/27/2011
Posts: 116
Less meat damage too

The 45-70 also causes less damage to the meat due to the lower velocity and muzzle energy. In my opinion the 45-70 would make a fine big game gun for close range hunting. It's suitable for any North Americam game at close ranges.

hunter25's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Colorado western slope
Joined: 11/13/2009
Posts: 3021
I think a lot of the 45-70's

I think a lot of the 45-70's recoil reputation is driven by a lot of guys that have never even shot one.

Critter's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!Moderator
Location: Western Colorado
Joined: 03/26/2009
Posts: 4033
I'll agree with that one. 

I'll agree with that one.  All one has to do is look at that 300 grain .45 caliber slug sitting on top of that case that looks like a cigar holder.  A lot of people believe that the larger that a case is the harder it is going to kick. 

Now if you want one that will really set you back on your heals, find a .416 Weatherby and shoot that one for a while.  Or if you really like punishment go up to the .460 Weatherby and try it out.  I did and I actually shot it 3 times before handing it back to my cousin and telling him to put it away.  That along with there not being any elephants in North America to hunt I decided that I didn't need to shoot it anymore. 

Tndeerhunter's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Tennessee
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 1110
Thanks for the comments! One

Thanks for the comments! One thing I like to mention when shooters ask about a 45-70 and something else is this; put a brand X cartridge in your hand, then add a 45-70 cartridge to that same hand. Compare them; and now decide!!  Whistling

Offline
Location: Palmer Ak
Joined: 03/24/2007
Posts: 131
As one that has a single shot

As one that has a single shot in 45/70 and 300 win mag ,I can assure you the 45/70 can be loaded to the point it is truly unplesant to shoot.I've played around with a lot of loads and just had to push a few up near the upper limits. 405 gr at 2000 fps.Not my idea of fun.

And a soft bullet pushed along at 13-1400 fps will do an unbelievable amount of damage.On the other hand a 300 gr hard cast at 11-1200fps will kill a moose and damage little meat.

The 30-06 is a great cal. and will kill everything in North America, but we as hunters /shooters can't be happy with just one.My choice for open country most of the time is a 260 Rem.

Offline
Moderator
Location: Nova Scotia
Joined: 08/17/2002
Posts: 1762
The factory 45-70 rounds are

The factory 45-70 rounds are pretty tame because of safety factored in to the loading of these rounds.  Because it is originally a BP cartridge, it had to be down loaded when using smokeless in the original old rifles.  Grab a new rifle barrel and action and hand load this cartridge to its potential and you will have a whole new animal and recoil will be unpleasant.

Tndeerhunter's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Tennessee
Joined: 04/13/2009
Posts: 1110
45-70

ChesterGolf wrote:

The factory 45-70 rounds are pretty tame because of safety factored in to the loading of these rounds.  Because it is originally a BP cartridge, it had to be down loaded when using smokeless in the original old rifles.  Grab a new rifle barrel and action and hand load this cartridge to its potential and you will have a whole new animal and recoil will be unpleasant.

 

I own two rifles in 45-70 and the only rounds I ever shoot in mine are loads approved only for modern rifles. The lighter load I shoot is the LE with a 325gr @ 2050 FPS and yielding well over 3,000 FPE. The others are 400gr and both at least 1800 FPS and adequate for any N.A. game. I also own two .450 Marlins which are similar to the 45-70, but have even heavier factory loads available. One of my .450s shoots the 350gr FN @ 2150 FPS and the other shoots the LE 325Gr load @ 2200+ FPS. Energy levels approach 3500 FPE with these loads. Recoil is a personal thing and is something I try never to sour others on. It's up to each shooter to discover where their limits are and for the 45-70 and typical factory loads, most any shooter should be comfortable and owes it to themselves to at least try one some day. Yes  

Critter's picture
Offline
Grand Slam Challenge Winner!Moderator
Location: Western Colorado
Joined: 03/26/2009
Posts: 4033
The problem with recoil is

The problem with recoil is that some can handle it and some can't.  I've seen 250 lb men that don't like shooting a 44magnum because of the recoil, but I had a 110 lb girlfriend years ago that could shoot one better than I could and the recoil didn't bother her at all.  The same goes with rifle rounds.  Some want to be able to keep the scope on the animal or target through the whole firring process and then there are those of us that don't mind getting pushed around some when they pull the trigger. 

I just deal with it depending on what I am shooting and what I am shooting at.  Now if I expect that hot loaded .45-70 to recoil like a .223 and pull the trigger well, then I am in for a surprise and not a very pleasant one at that. 

Offline
Location: Colorado Springs
Joined: 02/23/2009
Posts: 182
I have a friend that own's a

I have a friend that own's a 45/70.  I personally enjoy the heck out of it.  It's a Ruger #1, shoots very smooth and like all have said, very little recoil.  One of the things he did with his is create 2 loads.  One using pistol powder (I think) and the other load for hunting.  The reduced pistol powder load was like shooting a .22, no recoil at all.  And, at 100 yds, the load was great for target practice or when you just want to shoot a bunch.  The hunting load was, in my opinion, easier on my shoulder than my then .30-06.  Point being this, I was intimidated by the round prior to shooting it.  I'm sure that when I pulled the trigger the first time I closed my eyes.  But, once I fired it, I was absolutely shocked at how gentle the giant round was.  He even put up his chrono to show me the velocity comparisons.  Obviously, the reduced round was going turtle speed.  But what suprised me was that his hunting round was a respectifull velocity for any N Am game.  Like you all said, those that have never shot the rifle give it the fearfull reputation. 

JSmitty's picture
Offline
Location: Eunice, NM
Joined: 09/23/2008
Posts: 314
The 45/70 is the barrel I

The 45/70 is the barrel I wont to ad to my Encore because when I go after a buffalo that is what i will shoot it with. My son-in-law has a 300 WSM that I will never shoot agan because of the way it smacks you, but my sons 300 wetherby mag isnt much more than my feater weight 30-06.

The way I look at it is I can get another gun at half the cost so that is a good thing and the wife dosnt mind so much. Yes

Related Forum Threads You Might Like

ThreadThread StarterRepliesLast Updated
Bidens own wordscsumerall110/21/2008 23:41 pm
new hereafrican ph1001/13/2011 21:00 pm
Who says WSMs can't shoot?bitmasher1510/15/2006 05:34 am
Interesting Black Bear Tidbitsyndeis005/12/2010 09:40 am
Some interesting Coyote info30-338709/07/2005 22:47 pm