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Location: USA
Joined: 06/04/2006
Posts: 166
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Kmac, Mac here! I think you need to sit back and have another bottle of Vodka! Mr. Cool!

I have hunted in fenced ranches, and I hve hunted in Alaska where the land is open for 1500 miles, without a road, or fence. I've hunted on Islands that were smaller than most ranches in Texas, and Denmark is smaller than Presidio, and Brewster counties of far West Texas, and that's only two of the 252 counties in Texas's 257,000 sq miles, 95% privately owned . None of these places ever produced an animal that was what any thinking man would consider "CAGED"!
I was born on a Brush country Texas cattle ranch, and there are places of no larger than 600 acres, on that ranch where an Elephant could illude you for a week of hard hunting. I've hunted Kodiak Island, which is smaller than my grand father's ranch, and the high current cold water that surrounds Kodiak is in effect a fence. I didn't find the animals there to be "CAGED".
I know you think you know what you are talking about, but you are sadly mistaken in this case. Most of the ranches in Texas start in the 16,000 acre and above in outside land area. That outside measurement doesn't tell how large the ranch is, in surface area, only what the border says. I can take you to one of the smallest High fence areas I know of, about 1000 acres behind fence. This place is hilly, with creek bottoms, rocks, and bluffs, covered in Yopon Holly so thick you can't see once inside it. This 1000 acres, if flattened out, would be 5000 acres, and you still couldn't see more than 100 yds in a few places, and near 10 yds in most of it. This place has a lot of exotic game animals in it, as does all of that part of Texas, fenced or not! I think you would come away with as different opinion, if you had to find a trophy 1000 pound Eland in that 1000 acres. I can guarintee you will be humbled by these masters of eversion, and if you have half your clothing still on you when you get through one day of HUNTING behind that fence, you'll be lucky. To top this off you will be lucky if you get a trophy Eland there, and there are pleanty of them to be had if you know how to HUNT! neener!

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Location: Washington
Joined: 03/11/2006
Posts: 80
goldbelt's right

I agree with goldbelt on this one. You guys are splitting hairs. Hunters need to stick together. I've never been on a "fenced" hunt, but am not opposed to the idea (with limits) More than the sporting aspects of the farms i worry about animal health and disease transmission to wildlife. I'll use CWD as an example.
Anyway- Let's not judge. KAMC, stay in Europe and have a nice day.

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Location: Melvina, Wi.
Joined: 02/18/2007
Posts: 262
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Het guys- it's fun to bash everything in the USA today- ie exoctic hunts and bare boob reactions- screw them-- as for hunting in Texas-I enjoy it once in a while- I pick places where the game is more or less wild- ie few feeders and small paddocks- have actually hunted Aoudad on a 28, 000 ac ranch where thay had been for 30+yrs and it had no cross fences- i chased a bigg old boy for three days with my 50 cal muzzlegun and never did get a shot. What's wrong with hi fence hunts- nothing if you know what they are and agree that theyb are what they are- some ar ecaNNE Dand some not- but all are legal and if so and you got the $$ do what you feel is your bag- me I have hunted 25 yrs in AK 15 in west US and about 8 in Texas--all fun just different.

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Location: pennsylvania
Joined: 01/27/2007
Posts: 131
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

hey kmac come here and do some hunting on an exotics ranch its bigger then your country, the ones ive hunted the fences could be stepped over by human, are bigger then your country neener! , i'm sorry you live in such a place that fur pelts and hunting with dogs to make it easier for you to kill something is the norm. but dont get mad at america for what you dont have cuz jealousy is something we dont need among our ranks and if your not with us your against us so untill you do hunt in texas for exotics sit down shut up and leave us to our freedoms and ability to provide hunting oppertunities for everyone who wants to take part.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shame on You!

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Moderator
Location: texas
Joined: 04/23/2006
Posts: 483
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Unfortunately, I think a "high fence hunt" conjures up visions of an animal let out of a small cage only to be met by a hail of gunfire, as has been seen in some videos. They obviously do exist as canned hunts, which are despicable. This is another issue exploited inappropriately by the anti-hunting groups and is used to divide and conquer hunters. However, the vast majority of these hunts will actually be done on much larger places, as noted above. They can be fair and can be difficult. It is up to the hunter to choose what he/she feels meets his/her own viewpoints on fair. If one chooses not to hunt that way, that is fine. If we choose to try to live within our own comfort zone and allow others the same, we will all be happier and able to enjoy hunting, without aiding those who would take it from all of us. I would point out some of the similarities between this issue and the Jim Zumbo incident with "terrorist rifles". A ultra-purist view can backfire and bite the purist on the butt.

CVC
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Grand Slam Challenge Winner!
Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Kevin,

I am not trying to be argumentative here - really. I am just trying to understand your (and others) point of view on this issue.

Why is a canned hunt despicable?

Sure, it's not for me and probably many other hunters, but why should it be despised?

Is it because the animal doesn't have a chance to escape? Certainly, that is one reason I would not partake in it, but is that a reason to despise it?

Animals are routinely killed everday for our consumption and they have chance of escape - should slaughter houses and meat eaters be despised too?

I have seen hunts where they drive around on a vehicle, elevated on a stand looking for game and shoot from the stand on the vehicle. Again, not for me and while not a canned hunt, a very physically undemanding hunt that doesn't give an animal that much of a chance.

My point is where do we draw the line and if it is legal should we draw the line?

I guess we can get into ethics too, but that varies from person to person.

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Location: texas
Joined: 04/23/2006
Posts: 483
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

The type of canned hunt to which I referred is usually associated with lions or other large predators. The animal is in a cage, has been there for some time, fed there, and is let out of the cage, with the "hunter" standing near the door. When the "dangerous, wild animal" walks out the door of the cage, he is shot within feet of the enclosure. That I think is not really hunting and is to me despicable. The difference between that and a slaughterhouse for cattle is that there is no intent to use the meat, just collect a trophy, so I think it is a little different. Commercial processing of livestock is a fact and I have no problem with it. I actually prefer my game meat now to store bought stuff--no E coli, salmonella, etc. Hunting from a blind or a high rack truck, is O.K., even if some consider it a bit lazy. Yes, I am lazy at times. I do not think I have to spot and stalk everything 20 miles from the nearest road to call it hunting. Try axis or fallow deer hunting when the temperature is over 100 degrees and the blind suddenly becomes the best of all worlds! SHADE!!! As far as importing a big rack buck to a 20-40 acre high fence enclosure, just for Joe Hunter to get a certain size rack for his one day ranch hunt, that is very lazy but a deer can still hide in brush pretty well. As far as feeders, OK. Food plots are just non mechanical feeders. I think most things have to be settled in the individual's mind, as to what is good, bad or ugly. Live and let live, but the above example I gave really is a bit beyond the pale if you want to call it hunting. Hunting has gotten and will probably continue to get more commercialized due to the money involved. i will regret when we can go to the drive up window, order a 170 whitetail, a 340 elk, and a nice mouflon, "Please insert your credit card in the reader, then drive thru and load up your gun, The whitetail is in pasture 6, the elk in pasture 4 and the mouflon are in pasture 8. Do not forget to log out as you leave and have your trophies scored. Your meat will be delivered in two weeks and the hides/heads sent on to your taxidermist. Thank you and have a good day!" We all have our limits as to what we will do and not do. I hope we can respect most of each other's. I hope I did not come across as trying to enforce my ideas on someone else, just trying for a peaceful middle ground. Happy hunting to all.

CVC
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Location: Kansas
Joined: 03/04/2006
Posts: 3586
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

You make some very good points.

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Location: NewZealand
Joined: 05/17/2007
Posts: 44
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Hi all, tough topic. I am a hunting guide in New Zealand. The animals I hunt and guide for are free range although the properties are private. Game can escape and avoid humans due to the large land areas along with heavy forest cover, not much different to Texas except we are a lot smaller and don't have Dr Phil, snakes or a girl called Felina in a town called El Paso.

As a guide I feel obligated to spend my time glassing for game and studying herd habits prior to my clients arriving in order to increase the client's chances.
Not long ago I had a hunter and his wife come out for an overnighter. The client had had a stroke some months before, he was in his 60,s and did not feel the same vigour towards the hills as he had before the stroke. The week before the hunt I made every effort to make things as easy and promising as I could. This hunt was a hog hunt and I was able to walk the worst country during the week before the hunt and use my scent and my dog's scent to spoil the area and hopefully push the pigs closer to where we would camp. I also shot some goats and left the offal in a hopeful spot. We travelled to our hut by Quad and from there were fortunate enough to get a pig not far from the hut that evening. For me it was a time of stress as I could not guarantee that anything would be handy without covering a bit of ground.

Now- there are some places here that advertise an animal that is fenced within a 2 acre paddock, some up to 140 acres. At times, the animals are indeed pre ordered by size of trophy. I don't agree with it as I feel that it does give the "sport" a bad name and shows no respect for the animals. To anti gunners it must seem like a Nazi concentration camp setting.. Perhaps it is a case of like attracts like, a greedy landowner catering to an equally greedy rich businessman. These places get a lot of customers so this type of business will remain in vogue for some time yet.

I enjoy being able to cater to unfit hunters or those who have been working in the city so long that they suffer anxiety/ phobia when their familiar setting is all of a sudden changed to the expanse of the wilderness. At the same time, it is through the efforts of myself and the efforts, no matter how small, of the client that result in that feeling of great reward when an animal is taken. I make no promises, no 90% chance of bagging that wild cattle beast or deer if I know beforehand that the hunter may have difficulty on the hunt due to any dissability or personal limitations. I tell the client that I will be out in the hills prior to his arrival and will be glassing for game in the hope that he will score. When the client arrives I may say "hey I saw this big animal at such and such a place, we might have a good chance if he is still in the area when we get there" By the time we get started on our hunt the client is usually pretty pumped. I think the greatest part of the hunt is the sense of anticiapation. As we glass for game the anticipation is there, when we locate game that sense of anticipation skyrockets. As the client gets into position, tries to find a spot to shoot from, as his heart surges with adrenalin, those moments before the shot goes off, those are the greatest moments of the hunt. We hope that we will score that animal but until its down and dead, anything can happen.

Above all though, I have to say, I do like boobs.
Cheers, Nathan
http://www.ballisticstudies.com

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Location: Pennsylvania
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Socalled hunting...?!?!?

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