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Joined: 09/02/2004
Posts: 3
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

As a European (Danish) hunter I'm appalled to see that you are actually hunting exotic animals in cages in Texas!!! In Europe there is something called the ethics of hunting...dont know if you have heard about it in America :-? It's got alot to do with morale and giving the animal a sporting chance. Now I know alot of Americans blush and call it outrageous if you see a pair of bare breats in the TV ( The whole world laughed at your countrys reaction to Janets "accident" at the Super Bowl finals...Relax guys its just breats ) + its hard to hear an argument in the TV because of all the *beeps* in the conversation ect. ect. And on the other hand you go out and do THIS!!! Where is the logic??? Hunting has to have an element of chance involved + alot of other things wich I wont go into now. Otherwise its slaughter. These animals have no chance whatsoever = you are slaughtering not hunting them!!! If its the killing you like get a job as a butcher. They do it everyday AND get paid for it. To all of you guys with a "trophy" from a Texan Axis deer (wich is from India where hunting is forbidden!!!). I disrespect you!!! You are NOT hunters!!! Not in any way whatsoever... Evil! Evil! Evil! And you guys have so many exciting huntable species native to the U.S. wich makes this even more strange...

The outraged hunter!

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Joined: 09/02/2004
Posts: 3
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

I also posted a reply in the thread "How do you define FAIR CHASE HUNTING?" regarding the same topic...chek it out if you want. Sorry if it sounds like its americans i am attacking. It's not. It's the people hunting in cages. Particularly exotics, wich is just plain crazy and "over the top" if you ask me!

Quicksilver's picture
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Location: Colorado
Joined: 05/03/2003
Posts: 239
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Tally Ho!!

kmac, Sounds like you're more concerned with Americans reaction to Janet's Boob debut than you are with exotic hunting....

Pick a line and draw it buddy! Is it boobs or is it hunting?

Since you've decided to point a few fingers at Americans, lets have a gander at the size of Denmark relative to the United States, hunting land access, Denmarks struggle for the reintroduction of seal hunting, and not to forget Danish fur breeders!

The great land of the "Denmark (Danish) Hunter" total area is 43,094 kilometers squared with a population density of 125, while the United States total area is 9,629,091 kilometers squared with a population density of 76, and just for fun Texas (land of the controversial Axis Ranch) total area is 695,621 kilometers squared with a population density of 79.

To put this all in perspective, based on total area km2, the United States is around 223 times larger than Denmark, while Texas alone is 16 times larger than Denmark.

(So, in other words, Denmark is 1/16 the size of Texas, or, if a Moral'less American Hunting Giant could pick up Denmark, and drop it on the United States, Denmark would barely cover Maryland alone.)

Denmark is comprise of around 12% woodland, 65% farmland, and the rest is wetlands. Denmark claims that hunters in their country are able to hunt 90% of the land but 65% is fenced in farmland. Now, I'm going to make an assumption that the majority of Danish Big Game Hunters hunt on their personal or private farmland, which correct me if I'm wrong, is kind of like hunting on an exotic ranch. The wildlife is allowed to run free, but is limited to a set area or farm, which is often bordered by a fence, which is then bordered by another farm....

Denmark has a population of 5,352,815, a density of 125, 65% is farm land, and only 12% is woodland, and Kmac is screaming fair chase? Denmark compared to Texas, based on size and population density, is in essences like hunting in a cage... Then to top things off, Danish Hunters, wonder why they can't hunt with dogs? I guess it's not considered fair chase unless you let your dogs run a fox or deer tell exhaustion, wait tell the animal passes out somewhere on the farm, and then shoot it!

Now over the past few years, Danish Hunters have been trying to add Seal to their potential big game harvest list. I don't know about kmac, but this sounds a lot like exotic hunting to me, except seals don't run away, and much like a passed out deer or fox, a seal just sits on the ice, easy target, waiting, as kmac puts it, "to be slaughtered"..... Kmac, Where's the morals or better yet the "element of chance" in that?

kmac wrote:
Hunting has to have an element of chance involved + alot of other things wich I wont go into now. Otherwise its slaughter. These animals have no chance whatsoever = you are slaughtering not hunting them!!! If its the killing you like get a job as a butcher.

Job as a butcher, or, maybe become part of the "Danish" Fur Breeders Association? Denmark is one of the top producers of minks and has special breeding programs to harvest this crop. Now lets think about this... Denmark has breeding programs to establish healthy seal populations, much like an Exotic Ranch breeds heathy wildlife, and Denmark harvests seals, much like Axis Ranch harvests exotic wildlife, yet its called hunting or production in Denmark but it's slaughter in Texas?

Moving forward, I've dabbled in the size of Denmark, lightly touch upon the limited land access relative to farms, gave a glimps of the Danish Hunters pursuit of seal hunting, and ended with mink or seal pelt production..

So kmac, while you're chewing on your whale blubber, try and think about how fair chase at Axis Ranch is any different from seal hunting or the harvest of seal pelts, and when you come to your conclusion, tell it to an American who cares...

European Ethics eye roll

Sources:

Countries Area km2
http://www.ga.gov.au/education/facts/dimensions/compare.htm
Basic 1999 Summary of Seal Hunting
http://www.fimus.dk/huntseal.htm
U.S. States Area km2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_area
Hunting in Denmark PDF
http://www.face-europe.org/huntingineurope/nationalsections_en/denmark.e...

cowgal's picture
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Location: Colorado
Joined: 03/10/2002
Posts: 1787
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Kmac have you ever BEEN to Texas? It sure doesn't sound like it, or you'd know that most exotic ranches down there are bigger than some European countries!

I have never hunted exotics in Texas myself, however I do know your perception that its simply shooting an animal in a cage is completely false. I bet where you hunt you don't even have a fraction of the open space that we have here in the US, even on ranch hunts.

Do you eat beef or any domesticated meat? If yes, how do you think it got to the store? I don't understand your criticisms. Even if ranch hunting is not your style, who are you to say its unethical or somehow immoral? Even if its not my choice of hunting style, I don't feel you or I should be dictating to people that do enjoy it.

As for hunting animals that are not in their native habitat, again to each their own. As long as any hunting is done humanely, I don't see the problem.

Location: philo ohio
Joined: 11/04/2004
Posts: 35
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

hey we have ethics we have some facilits here for people who cant go out in the woods and hunt any more and this is there chance there not in cages they are free range but in a more acible way so go to hell u people bring up the super bowl and act like its no biggy to see a tit but some people here are raiseing children but u guys have your children turn out like asswhole like u so go to hell Evil!

Location: philo ohio
Joined: 11/04/2004
Posts: 35
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

sorry bout my toung everybody that just ercs me

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Location: new zealand
Joined: 12/08/2005
Posts: 4
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

big bisness americans coming here( nz ) to hunt behind wire
they get some amazing trophys but to me they dont count unless fair chase
some even come here shoot a trophy thar from a chopper to me tropys shoot like that dont count at all
i got a thar on the weekend old fasioned way good pair of boots and climb climb and climb again real hunting

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Location: CA Central Coast
Joined: 12/01/2005
Posts: 151
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

"hunt behind wire" -- what does this mean, specifically? Some people may consider hunting within fences to violate the concept of fair chase, but what if the fenced area is so large that the animals can live their entire lives unaware of the fences? Here in the states, we have ranches that are larger than many countries.

I'm all in favor of the concept of fair chase, but let's face it: it's a rather arbitrary (though not unreasonable) idea. The issue of how "fair" a particular hunting practice may be, is rather a slippery slope.

What if someone decided that it was "unfair" to use modern technology (like firearms) since it's not the way the cave man did it? Is the use of things to make the hunt easier (like blinds or camouflage) similarly unfair? One might also question the difference between using artificial boundaries (like fences) vs. using natural ones like cliffs or rivers to corner prey.

Human beings are omnivores, and therefore ARE natural predators. Like any other species, it's in our nature to use all means at our disposal. Placing restrictions on what devices we may use is of course necessary for several reasons, but is still drawing an arbitrary line in the sand.

And while I have no idea what Janet Jackson has to do with this, her boob may not be a big deal (in more ways than one), but the way in which it was revealed was a capstone of a Super Bowl show that was vulgar, unappealing and entirely inappropriate for family viewing. The outcry was, IMO, fully justified.

Just some ramblings from a newbie...

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Location: Juneau,Alaska
Joined: 02/21/2006
Posts: 31
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

kmac,
Your attitude is just how the antihunters and anti gun people win. The way some people hunt isn't for me, such as baiting and shooting bear in the dark from a tree. But however that's fine for them just not my cup of tea. we need to quit judging other hunters this way. Where people live makes a big difference. What may seem strange to you just might be ok in some other geographical location. For instance you might think it strange that I hunt deer with a .375 HH mag. Well it just so happens there is an average of 1 brown bear per sq. mile where I hunt. Another person may use a long range super mag. because he hunts from a stand across large bean fields. Another hunts pigs with dogs in the swamp which is one hell of a hard way to hunt. I could go on and on but I'll stop here. You do your country a disservice when you claim your nationality before slamming other people.

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Location: Andover, Connecticut
Joined: 01/01/2006
Posts: 11
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Kmac, think cultural relatavism

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Moderator
Location: texas
Joined: 04/23/2006
Posts: 483
Socalled hunting...?!?!?

Havin hunted around the world, with and without high fences, I understand your concerns but doubt you have ever hunted in south Texas. The native brush here is so thick you can generally not see much past 10-15 yards unless there has been a burn or clearing created. In a 1000 acre high fenced pasture, even if a blind is used, even if corn is spread, there is no guarantee of an animal coming out. I hunted a beautiful axis buck in such a place. After closing the gate, there he was. He let me get out of the truck, load my rifle, then took off just as i placed a round in the chamber. I never saw him again for 12 hours of hunting in the "cage". If you ever tried to claw your way through the thorny mesquite, huisache, cacti that are south Texas brush, you would welcome a blind to sit in, not to mention scorpions, rattlesnakes, tarantulas, fire ants, etc. Everything in Texas has horns, thorns, or stingers! VEry often the deer still have the advantage inside the cage. Yes, there are canned hunts on tiny parcels, but they only exist because of the lazy trophy hunters.

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