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So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

And I became to wonder how everyone would react to this message. Mind you, I'm just curious to what everyone had to say to this in rebuttal.
Historically, hunting has been a fundamental part of human existence. It has provided shelter, clothing, and nourishment for humans and was necessary for the survival and expansion of the human race. Over the past couple of centuries however, the need for hunting has diminished, and this necessity has evolved into a sport which has had a drastic effect on both the hunted animals and the environment in which they live. Today, humans face a daunting task of trying to repair the damage that has been done due to irresponsible development and irresponsible hunting practices by humans. Because of this irresponsibility, there is no longer a natural balance among species in the wild. Development has driven healthy numbers of species onto small parcels of land in which they are crowded and overpopulated. These animals are driven into backyards and onto highways where they have become a nuisance to homeowners and a danger to motorists. But what is the solution? Some say that more hunting is necessary to solve this overpopulation problem yet others say hunting practices contribute to the problem. Is hunting the solution or the problem?

Time and time again, throughout history, species have been over-harvested to the point of endangerment or even extinction. For instance, prairie dogs once lived by the millions in the grasslands of North America, but by the year 2000 black-tailed prairie dogs were being shot by the thousands for sport and their colonies fell below critical size. Soon the entire species vanished. The trend of sushi eating contributed to the decline of the blue-fin tuna because of over-fishing. The danger of losing an entire species is not the only danger of hunting though. Strangely enough, overpopulation can be a result of irresponsible hunting too.

Hunting is a multi-million dollar industry and this presents an extreme conflict of interest when it comes to overpopulation issues. Hunting licenses and tax dollars generate revenue each year to support the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, the agency charged with regulating the hunting industry. Naturally, to stay in existence the agency needs as much money as possible, and having more animals that need to be hunted may not be viewed as a problem. U.S. Fish and Wildlife and their state counterparts use wildlife management techniques in an attempt to create a balance between humans and game species. These techniques guide the agencies when determining hunting limits for each species and hunting limits for each sex within a species. Wildlife management in practice however, becomes somewhat of a misnomer.

Although wildlife management should be a method of keeping populations down at healthy numbers, it seems to actually be a tactic to make sure there are adequate numbers of game species for hunters to hunt and therefore contributes to the overpopulation problem. The New Jersey Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife even states that “the deer resource has been managed primarily for the purpose of sport hunting, ” (New Jersey Division of Fish, Game and Wildlife, An Assessment of Deer Hunting in New Jersey, 1990). Many scientists believe that game species such as deer, elk, and turkey are at the highest numbers that they have ever reached in recorded history, and human harvest numbers are at all time highs as well. So according to these opinions, even with wildlife management practices in place all over the country, there is still an overpopulation problem that is not being solved.

The fact that hunting is not operating as a solution to overpopulation problems can be seen in both hunting practices and hunting regulations of the white-tailed deer. Some hunters make it a practice to eliminate natural predators of game species so that the animals can survive, only to be later hunted by humans. Obviously if overpopulation was a concern then these natural predators would be praised for their ability to keep numbers down. Also, many hunters refuse to kill doe either because of a fear of orphaning a fawn or simply because there will be no trophy at the end of the harvest. First of all, the belief that an orphaned fawn means automatic death for the fawn is misguided. According to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, a group of fawns was artificially weaned from their mothers at 60 days and another group at 90 days. Growth of these deer was compared to a control group of fawns that were not weaned. There was no difference in body weights of the fawns at 60 and 90 days. However, the mean body weight of deer weaned at 90 days was heavier than the control group. This basically shows that a fawn's rumen is functional at about 60 days. Because 95% of all deer in Texas are born before July 15, sixty days after birth is well before the opening of archery season and 90 days after fawning also occurs by opening day of archery season for most fawns, and before opening day of general season for at least 95% of all Texas fawns. Although there can be no conclusive studies on how many fawns orphaned by hunting in the wild do not survive, these studies seem to show that by the time hunting season is in full swing, a fawn will most likely survive without its mother.

This reluctance to harvest does greatly contribute to the overpopulation problem. Normally, without the interference of hunting, the sex ratio of the deer will be roughly 50-50 (an even number of males to females). Because more bucks are killed than does the balance is shifted drastically, and in many places the ratio is closer to 80-20 (four times as many does as bucks). Overpopulation problems are now compounded. Hunting regulations do not solve the problem either because in many areas it is not legal to kill a doe at all, and still in other areas the numbers of doe that can be harvested are very low. Luke Dommer, the founder of the Committee to Abolish Sport Hunting, has proposed to several state wildlife agencies that if they are serious about wildlife management as a solution to overpopulation issues, then they should institute a doe season until the ratio is back at 50-50. All agencies rejected this proposal.

After hunting and wildlife management practices enhance the overpopulation problem, this imbalance then becomes a danger to other species, the environment and even to humans. For instance, healthy forests should have a floor of herbs and wildflowers, a mid-story of shrubs and seedlings, and a ceiling of mature trees. When the white-tailed deer population rises, they begin to feed on the forest floor to such a degree that they practically clear the forest. Other species lose their protection from weather, the materials to build their homes, their protection from predators, and their own food sources. This is such a dire problem that many species have become endangered because of habitat destruction such as this.

Not only do the animals of the forest suffer but the forest itself and humans suffer too. The trees cannot regenerate due to the deer eating the seeds, acorns, and even the saplings. This affects the forests' ability to cleanse the air we breathe and to purify the water we drink. The overpopulated deer will cost farmers an average of $9, 000 per year in damage and they will cause 1.5 million vehicle collisions a year which cost $1.1 billion in damage. Thousands of lives will be lost in these collisions each year.

There is no doubt that something has to be done about this issue, but what is the answer? It is obvious that hunting and wildlife management has not done an adequate job thus far. Is it possible to let alone and let nature? Because this is a human created problem there will most likely have to be a human created solution but it will take ethical and caring people to develop a solution that is not tainted by the interests of hunters or the gun-manufacturing lobby. Hopefully the solution will come before the damage is irreparable.

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Location: Colorado
Joined: 03/10/2002
Posts: 1787
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

Your statements above make it obvious that you are NOT a hunter, nor do you know what hunting is all about. Most of what you stated is totally false. Hunters are more aware of the balance of nature than the general public. Its in our best interests to keep that balance healthy & viable. Most people hunt because they enjoy the outdoors.

You also paint a picture with broad statements about overpopulation. This is not the case in all areas of the country. Every area of this country (state, province, etc.) is acutely aware of the balance that is necessary for all species. You make it sound like we're living in a vacuum and nobody's paying attention. You're wrong, we are active in our own geographical areas. And by the way, Colorado is one state that is NOT overpopulated with deer, nor are most western states.

Lastly, you assume that all hunters are simply out for trophies. Again you are very wrong. Many are meat hunters and are perfectly happy with does or cow elk.

I'm betting you're an anti-hunting activist simply trying to get a rise out of folks on this board. I suggest you take your propaganda elsewhere.

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Location: Wa.
Joined: 03/31/2004
Posts: 1300
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

How about giving a link to that forum. Some may want to read it.
It seems to be loaded with false, biased and misleading info. The typical ignorance and strategy of the anti-hunting movement. Printing lies do not make them facts.

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Joined: 07/01/2005
Posts: 70
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

Why dont you share your BS with your PETA friends,they might buy it.

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Joined: 08/27/2004
Posts: 1964
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

why are they even letting this guy cut and paste the BS on the best hunting forum online i disagree with all that BS Talk it probably is someone with peta who wrote that or some idiot thats lived in a city his whole life being afraid by guns and all that well im one that knows from experience guns dont kill people people kill people so get your story straight before you write garbage like this in a hunting forum where people live for hunting and love it sometimes more then thier wife why try and take our heritage and love for it away by showing us what people like that are sayin about us its BS.

____________________________________________________________
I am a true believer in the one shot one kill method..

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Location: Missouri/Arkansas
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 891
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

I consider a doe a trophy, so it's all good.

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Joined: 07/01/2005
Posts: 70
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

This is the fourth time I have seen these anti-gun/hunting bastards being allowed to post on this forum,thank god the mods are here to prevent arguments but allow these people to landblast us and tell us how horrible our lifestyle AND the purpose of this form is...GJ guys!!

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Joined: 01/27/2002
Posts: 7916
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

We can assure you that the antis have posted a LOT more than just 4 times on this forum. The majority of those posts are never seen by the members of this forum.

We encourage discussion of all topics on all levels. We do NOT tolerate insulting dialogue or ridiculous flame wars.

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Joined: 08/27/2004
Posts: 1964
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

i agree but you are a hunter yourself right mod so what do think of the discussion?what are your thoughts id like to more of what the moderators think and what sides they would take?

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Posts: 70
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

Any time an anti hunter posts thier BS on this forum nobody here wants to hear thier rhetoric,we come here to discuss our lifestyle not defend it.

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Joined: 01/27/2002
Posts: 7916
So there's a discussion on hunting on another forum..

If there is a topic you don't like, don't read it. Don't post to it.

As for moderators posting opinions. There are several people involved as moderators, we all have one job here - to moderate the forums and make sure the rules are followed. Moderators do not post opinions. If we do, its under our own name/handle.

As for the "are we hunters?" question. None of us would be here if we weren't pro-hunting and pro-guns. That's a given.

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