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Joined: 01/04/2008
Posts: 21
should i shoot this deer

dont really want to but a friend of mine told me that when the yearling got a year and a half a the doe would run it off if it is a buck and it is so should i shoot the doe to keep the buck here

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Location: Roanoke, VA
Joined: 01/12/2008
Posts: 62
should i shoot this deer

As far as I know the buck won't go far. The doe just runs it off from her to make it start living on it's own. It's natures version of tough love.

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Joined: 07/03/2006
Posts: 232
should i shoot this deer

It's actually natures version of genetic dispersal.

Your friend has not misled you entirely. Chances are very high if the adult doe survives that buck will disperse and take up residence elsewhere. However that doesnt sign the death warrant for mamma. Theres far more to making a proper management decision than if your going to retain one buck or not. Keep in mind that gal will likely have 1-2 fawns per year for several more years and 50% of those offspring will also be bucks. Which does you put pressure on depends on what your present goal is.

Lot of folks fell into the QDM bandwagon in recent years. Unfortunately most go off half cocked with half the information available to make a wise management decision. Whether this buck will stay on your ground should be the last thing you consider.

Keep in mind, even though your losing your yearling bucks to the neighbors, your getting some of theirs back. You should focuss your plans around herd densities and making sure the habitat is suitable to attract other bucks that are in the process of dispersing. That would be having a reasonable dpsm figure thats conducive to good health and hunting, plenty of quality cover, forage, and water.

One mistake folks make is they think QDM means Quality hunting. Been around long enough to undestand that shooting all your does down may improve the health of the herd and individual deer, but it doesnt nessecarily mean its going to improve your hunting experience. Expect this if your real aggressive on does and passing young buck , expect to see a general increse in buck sightings the first few years then in following years a dramatic decrease. HUH??? did I just say that?? But were passing em all up..Sure did cause friends when you knock out all your does the bucks end up going where they does are which is likely on your neighbors unmanaged tracts where they havent whacked ands stacked every doe they see.

BTW this post is probably far more suited to the deer forum than the turkey forum.

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Location: kentucky
Joined: 12/14/2007
Posts: 43
Re: should i shoot this deer
laneboyte wrote:
dont really want to but a friend of mine told me that when the yearling got a year and a half a the doe would run it off if it is a buck and it is so should i shoot the doe to keep the buck here

If thats a buck it won't go far. Especially if there's a good food source around.

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Joined: 07/03/2006
Posts: 232
should i shoot this deer

Here's a little something to chew on, while your digging up some fact jasunky. Don't get too excited yet....this is just the tip of the iceberg of accurate information you will now be able to pass along..

This is a reposting of an original thread at http://www.huntingforums.com

Pennsylvania Buck Dispersal Research

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all,

This is Eric Long; I'm a deer researcher at Penn State University, and I was invited to join in on this discussion. I'm wrapping up a large study of juvenile buck dispersal in Pennsylvania. From 2002 - 2004, we radio-collared over 400 fawn bucks and tracked their movements as yearlings. Similar to Dr. Matthews study, we found that many of our bucks dispersed long distances when they were about 1 - 1.5 years old. Average movements were about 4 miles, but some deer dispersed over 25 miles from where we tracked them as fawns to where they established their adult ranges. Two deer even dispersed across the Allegheny River in Western PA, which is about 400 yards wide and big enough for barge traffic. Because does tend not to move long distances, this dispersal is thought to be nature's way of ensuring fresh genes get into the population each generation. (It doesn't help a buck to stay in the same place his whole life if all the females are close relatives of his.)

We found that about 50 - 75% of yearling bucks dispersed in Pennsylvania, and the remainder established adult ranges that overlapped the range in which they were born. Dispersal occurred during two peak seasons. The first was in the spring (May - June), when bucks' mothers were giving birth to their next set of fawns. For bucks that did not disperse in spring, many dispersed in the fall (late Sept to early Nov), immediately preceding the rut. Spring dispersal was most likely cued by maternal aggression (the mother essentially kicks her son out of the area), and fall dispersal most likely relates to breeding season competition among bucks.

One interesting thing that we found in our study is that hunting practices influenced dispersal patterns. We did our study during a time when new, statewide antler point restrictions increased the number of 2.5 year old bucks in our state's population. Indirect evidence from our study tended to agree with observations that orphaned bucks were less likely to disperse in spring. However, we found that fall dispersal increased as the number of yearling and older bucks in PA increased. So, we found that the overall number of young bucks that disperse in a given year didn't change predictably from one year to the next, but we saw a higher percentage of that dispersal occur in the fall as the number of older bucks in our study areas increased. For instance, in one study area, in 2002, 75% of all dispersal occurred in the spring and 25% occurred in the fall. By the end of the study, 25% occurred in the spring, and 75% occurred in the fall. Greater fall dispersal is probably related to increased breeding season competition in the fall.

Further, we found that deer dispersed farther distances in habitats with less forest cover. For example, compared to Illinois, where ther is very little forest cover, deer in forested regions of Pennsylvania dispersed much shorted distances, on average. This finding has important implications for the spread of diseases like CWD. For instance, if dispersing deer carry CWD from one population to the next, and managers decide to enact Eradication Zones to curb the spread of disease, I would recommend larger zones in less forested regions.

If you want more information on our study, I will try to check back in sometime this week to answer questions. And, I will try to tackle some of the questions that have already been posted on this thread, but I'll let Dr. Matthews answer the questions that directly relate to her study. As you all probably know, deer don't behave identically everywhere they roam, and I'm sure our results in PA won't directly mirror the results from Wisconsin.

Thanks for the invitation to join this thread,
~Eric Long, Ph.D.
_________________

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Location: kentucky
Joined: 12/14/2007
Posts: 43
should i shoot this deer
hatracked wrote:
Jaunky please do reference some facts here. Then get ready cause I am going to lay a pile of radio collar studies on you that will undisputably prove you absolutely do not know what you are talking about.

LOL, well i have seen a lot of does and fawns on my property. One of the fawns got killed by a car, It was a doe. When the buck left the mom, it stuck around. He became a nine point that my next door neightbor shot. I missed the same deer.

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Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
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should i shoot this deer
hatracked wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello all,

..................................
We found that about 50 - 75% of yearling bucks dispersed in Pennsylvania, and the remainder established adult ranges that overlapped the range in which they were born. ................................................

_________________

Before you get too carried away there hatracked, according to the research between 50% and 25%, that's 100 to 200 fawn bucks, stayed in the same general area that they were born in.
Perhaps these are the bucks that jasunky1 had seen and to which he was referring to.......could it be?

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Location: Roanoke, VA
Joined: 01/12/2008
Posts: 62
should i shoot this deer

I don't claim to be an expert on QDM by any stretch of the imagination, but I did find this interesting:

http://www.qdma.com/articles/details.asp?id=94

"What effect then does an older male age structure have on dispersal rates of yearling bucks? In the pre-QDM population, 70 percent of yearling bucks dispersed compared to 55 percent of yearling bucks in the post-QDM population. If adult bucks suppressed yearling male breeding competition, and breeding competition among yearling bucks caused dispersal, it makes sense that dispersal rates are lower in the post-QDM population. Our results suggest QDM may lower dispersal rates by reducing yearling buck breeding competition.

The potential bad news is that the antler size of nondispersing yearlings appears to be smaller in the post-QDM population. In the pre-QDM population, dispersers had fewer antler points than nondispersers. In the post-QDM population, the opposite was observed. Dispersers had more antler points than nondispersers (Fig. 2&3). This difference in the number of antler points indicates QDM properties may lose larger antlered yearlings that are not replaced from surrounding non-QDM properties."

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Joined: 07/03/2006
Posts: 232
should i shoot this deer
jtapia wrote:
according to the research between 50% and 25%, that's 100 to 200 fawn bucks, stayed in the same general area that they were born in.

No thats not what the research says. Read again.

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Location: Florida,USA
Joined: 08/21/2003
Posts: 1566
should i shoot this deer

Thats exactly what it says. It is a direct copy of the article you pasted !!!

Thats my own math at the bottom ... 1/2 of 400 is 200 and 1/4 is 100. 50% is 1/2 therefore 1/2 of 400 would be 200. and 25% is 1/4 therefore 1/4 of 400 would be 100.

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Joined: 07/03/2006
Posts: 232
should i shoot this deer

stayed in the same general area that they were born in.

Thats your english too.

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