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groovy mike's picture
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Should animals be reloacted / introduced to new areas

Reintroduction of any game animal is controversial. I am in favor of letting animals expand their existing range into areas that they naturally migrate to. For instance moose are moving back into NY after a long absence of a hundred years or more. But artificially introducing animals is something else entirely. One idea is to re-introduce them into an area that they once were and have been pushed out of. This I'm iffy on but generally in favor of. 

What I wonder about is introducing animals where they have never been before – It has worked out well - like the moose in New Foundland and the Roosevelt Island elk.

But it has also been disastrous as in the Australian rabbit plague.

So what do you think? Let them expand, but don’t relocate? Reintroduce but don’t artificially expand? Or is this one of those things that have to be looked at on a case by case basis every time?

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In the past I was generally

In the past I was generally on favor of these programs as I assumed all the possible details had been worked out. But anymore I'm mostly thinking like you are and things should be left alone and let them spread on thier own and sometimes not even then.

For instance hog expansion is something that most states don't want to see happen and I hope the wolves never make it to Colrado as I feel there are not enough deer down here anyway without them eating more.

The final issue is the cost these days. With all the programs they are wanting to cut to save money there is no reason to start creating new programs to spend more.

expatriate's picture
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Should animals be relocated/introduced to new areas

I'm a big believer in relocation.  For example, I think problem mountain lions in California should be relocated into neighborhoods containing anti-hunters.  Same thing for bears in New Jersey.

JSmitty's picture
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And let some wolfs loose in

And let some wolfs loose in DC, oh they have been there for a long time in sheeps clothing.

groovy mike's picture
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I like the way you are

I like the way you are thinking Expatriate and Smitty! Lol

 

Hunter25: I can not argue with the sentiment about the cost.  Government programs of any kind cost way more than anything should.  So as far as I’m concerned teh government needs to avoid any and all new programs while cutting spending on everything else across the board - maybe start with 10% of every budget item?

 

The New York moose are now made up of not only moose that wander in from Vermont and Canada but also resident moose that breed and raise calves inside of New York State.  I think this is a wonderful development.  Yes there will be moose car collisions in the North Country but God willing there will also someday be moose hunting in New York State.  If feral pigs want to move into southern New York State I’m also all for that too.  I know that farmers will hate them and that there will be moves to eradicate them, but it would mean another big game species available to new Yorkers and that’s a good thing in my book.  I feel the same way about wolves who arrive naturally.  You are right that they would prey on deer and any pigs and moose besides, but to my mind that just means more wolf hunting opportunity to keep the wolf population is strictly limited numbers.  Coyotes have moved eat into New York and Possums have come north in the last 50 years.  We never used to have either.  The one species that I would wipe out here (and everywhere) if I could which has recently migrated into my home turf is TICKS!  I hate those things!

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i second that! i am for the

i second that! i am for the complete anhiallation of any and all tick subspecies.

i don't care what type of weapon we need to use, be it chemical, biological or nuclear!

growing up, i saw all of 2 ticks in my life. both on pigs i was raising for 4-h. since i've moved to kansas, i see more than 2 a day, average! what the heck is going on here?

 

but i support the re-introduction of animals into what was once their habitat... then i could have hunted elk in ohio and i might actually be able to draw a tag in kansas! (i think kansas has 40-50 permits per year, and about 2000 applicants.)

buffybr's picture
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Results of introduction or

Results of introduction or re-introduction of game animals has gone from excellent in some areas to beyond terrible in another.  I guess it depends on the species and how they are managed after they are introduced.

By the year 1900 many of our once thought endless herds of game animals were reduced to almost nothing and were on the path of the Passenger Pigeon.  Elk were extinct in many of their former ranges.  Without the re-introduction of elk from Yellowstone, Arizona would not be the premier elk hunting state that it is today.  Wild Turkeys are another good example.  I believe there were about 50,000 of them in the U.S. in 1900.  Today, thanks to re-introductions and sound managemant, there are more than 2.5 million of them across the country.

Bighorn sheep have also thrived because of re-introductions.  From commercial meat hunting and disease from domestic sheep, our Bighorn sheep herds vanished from most of their historic range.  Through re-introductions, Bighorns have been restored to most of their original ranges in Montana, and we currently have about 5,700 Bighorns in Montana.

I grew up and began hunting in Colorado.  Back then there were a total of zero Moose in Colorado.  Because of re-introductions, Colorado now has a healthy, huntable population of Moose.

Other states like New Mexico introduced foreign species like Oryx (gemsbok), Aoudad, and Ibex to their sparcily populated desert areas.  There are now huntable free range populations of these species in New Mexico and limited free range hunting of Aoudad in Texas. 

Ringneck Pheasants are not native to North America.  Since they were introduced, they have become the most popular gamebird in many states.

Hawaii originally did not have any mammals.  There are now huntable populations of a variety of big game animals and gamebirds on most of the islands.

The New Zeland islands also did not originally have any mammals on them.  Because of introductions, New Zeland now has some of the best Red Stag, HimalayanTahr, and Chamois hunting in the world.

These are just some of the many successes of game animal introductions and re-introductions.  Wild pigs and hogs were mentioned earlier as problems of introductions, and yes, they are a menace to agriculture, but they provide hunting opportunities and food for thousands of hunters every year.

Then we get to the greatest disaster of introduction/re-introduction of our lifetime.  The introduction/re-introduction of Wolves to Yellowstone and the Northern Rockies.  When the US Fish & Wildlife Service brought the Canadian wolves into Yellowstone, they said their goal was 150 breeding pairs of wolves.  There are now close to 2,000 of these predators in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho, and they are dicimating elk, deer, moose, and bighorn sheep herds in these states.  Between the Federal Government failing to manage their end of the program, a horde of wacko environmentalists, and one misguided Judge, big game herds in these states has been set back almost 100 years.

Save 200 elk, kill a wolf.

 

JSmitty's picture
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I live in NM where Ibex,

I live in NM where Ibex, Oryx, Barbary sheep, Tar, and Fallow deer have all been introduced and am greatfull for it, but if it was to day I wauld say not to introduce the exotics but lets bring our native back to where they once were. We did a great job with the Elk and for that matter the Bighorn sheep, I would just like to see them back in all their original ranges, as in the guadulupies. The problem is the domestic sheep will not allow this. 

It amazes me still that the Buffalo has not been reclassified as a game animal anywhere, I would love to see that hapen and not just be a private for sale animal.

Just thought about this one, allmost the Antelope were gone in the early 1900s. If they werent relocated from NM we would be the only place to hunt them, that has been a great success for Wyoming, thanks for the Elk.

Now with the agendias of today all we have to whach out that the Desert Sandhill Lizard dosent shut down the Oilfield if it is declared indangered. My thought if they would quit killing them to find out if it is a DSL we wouldnt have a problem. Just mt two cents.

James 

groovy mike's picture
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bison! lets do it

I'm all for reintroducing free roaming bison herds!  Of course anyone with fences or crops might object though.....

expatriate's picture
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Animal reintroduction

What happens when science finds a way to resurrect woolly mammoths from frozen DNA?  Should we reintroduce them?

groovy mike's picture
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Expatriate, that is an excellent question.

Expatriate, that is an excellent question.  I think most of us would support resurrecting woolly mammoths, heck after they establish a breeding program I'd welcome the chance to shoot and eat one!  But at what point do you draw the line between bringing back the passenger pigeons, and the Tyrannosaurus Rex?

 

If you go that far, how about Neanderthal?  If you can do that it is a short scientific step (maybe even a step backwards) to grow a clone from a tissue sample.  We might be inclined to clone a dozen infants with the genetic potential of our favorite super model, or even star athletes, but how about Michael Jackson, or Joseph Stalin clones?  It is dangerous, very dangerous hypothetical ground we are treading on here!  I'm not proposing answers.  At this point I'm just fleshing out the question and even that doesn’t seem fully formed without the need for a great deal more of thought on the topic.  It probably requires way more time than I am willing to devote to it, but I bet there is a whole crop of budding science fiction writers that might want to pick up where Michael Creighton left off with the end of his Jurassic Park trilogy.  I think there is a series of movies about a similar plot line – something like recreating the 100 foot mega-sharks. 

 

It is thought provoking anyway!  Just imagine an island where you could not only hunt stags with fourteen foot antler spreads, but also the saber tooth tiger, and cave bear.  And that isn’t even getting into the dinosaur era with their multi-ton prehistoric behomoths of land and sea!  There could be the potential to end world hunger by domesticating brontosaurus or brachiosaurus!  They’d make elephant steaks look puny.  But what would they taste like?

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