This topic is sort of prompted by the forum on Captain Obvious' new rifle, which I thought was refreshing. Many people have forgotten that the original short actions still have plenty of power for most applications, and do it with a lot less cost, weight, and recoil than long actions or magnums. The .243, 6mm, .257 Roberts, and 250 Savage are all reliable deer rounds. The .308, .300 Savage, 7mm-08, 7mm Mauser, 6.5 Swedish, and .260 are all dynamite deer rounds and can be used for larger game as well. It's good to see people still realize that. No, they cannot replace long action or magnum rounds, but they are far more versatile and effective than they are given credit for.
28 replies [Last post]
Fri, 2004-01-30 18:14
Sun, 2004-05-02 13:36#1
I've always preferred the shorter rounds to the standard length (30-06 length). Over the years I have used the 358win, 308win, 300 savage, 7-08rem, 250 savage and 243win. With good to excellent performance on all of them.
I was taught to hunt with the 30-06 and the 270win and the majority of my hunting has been with one or the other.
Several of the short action rounds can be loaded to higher pressures than their comparable standard action round, which may account for their very fine performance. The 25's being the exception.
With the development of the wsm's, I'm finding that the performance levels of these short fat rounds is surpassing the levels of the comparable standard length and approaching the levels of the larger magnums. They burn a little more powder than the standard rounds, and they can be loaded to higher pressures than the 308 size cases and even most of the magnums. Which accounts for the velocity and energy they develope. Sure, there is the point that the long mags spit the heavy for caliber bullets better. Don't be mislead, the short mags can spit them out with plenty of juice.
I,ve always felt that Winchester was on the right track with the short action rounds.
One other thought I would like to add is. As far as accuracy. I'm not sure if a short case is any more accurate than a standard or long case. If any round is worked with enough. It can be made to be target quality, as long as there are good bullets available.
Sun, 2004-05-02 16:54#2
The "older" short action calibres are still, and always will be, amazing. I have hunted most of my life with short action calibres(6mm, 308win, 300 savage, 6.5x55) and can't say one bad thing about them. Now that the market is offering better quality bullets for the above rounds it can only get better. Any of you that followed my posts will know I am hunting with the 300 RUM now but only when I am in my stand overlooking a field. If I am still hunting I will still grab one of the above calibres(usually the 6mm, or the 6.5x55). Those are two rounds that I will always love even more so than the other two. I have yet to try the new short action rounds but feel they too have a place in the market. I don't think there can ever be too many calibres on the market. Most think it is just so the companies can sell us more guns and for the most part that is true. But, as long as there are people still wildcatting rounds out there the ammo companies haven't invented all the calibres. Variety is a nice option to have in my books.
Sun, 2004-05-02 19:09#3
I think a 7mm-08 will perform about like a 270 if it's properly loaded. It's a top-notch deer round for shots out to 300 yards, that's all I'd ever ask for.
Sun, 2004-05-02 19:35#4
I did some test with the 270win and the 7-08. The conclusion I came up with is. There isn't a lick of difference between the two rounds. In fact I was more impressed with the 7-08.
Sun, 2004-05-02 19:39#5
A 270 does have a bigger case, which may give it somewhat more velocity, but as far as big game performance goes, the difference is too small to be recognized. I am aware of loads for the 7mm-08 that can crank the 140-grain missile, particularly the boat tail design, to 2900 to 3000 fps MV. Plus I think its superior to the 270 Winchester anyway. Less recoil being part of that.
Sun, 2004-05-02 19:52#6
If I was looking for an all around deer, sheep and mountain rifle round. For me the 7-08 would win hands down.
It can be loaded to higher pressure and that more than makes up for the powder difference. The major thing I noticed was I was able to load it hotter than what the factories were offering. I had it shooting as flat as any of the longer cased rounds and better than the 308.
The .284 diameter just may be the ideal diameter for that case dimension.
Sun, 2004-05-02 20:10#7
Oh yeah, defintely. If I were going to purchase a light rifle, it would be the Remington Model 700 Mountain rifle, and it would absolutely be chambered for the 7mm-08. Although it lacks the authority of a 7mm Remington Magnum, the latter can be a burden, mine weighs a solid 8-1/2 lbs, and it is not necessary for deer hunting, particularly at shorter range. This is where I would see the 7mm-08 being applicable. Elk in the timber? Why not! Bighorn sheep, mountain goats, mule deer, black bear? Excellent choice! Plus it also works nicely as a varmint round. Aside from this, it really doesn't kick all that hard, but I can sure tell you, I would not want a model Seven Stainless, like my own 7mm-08, to be chambered for the larger 308 Winchester, that would take the fun right out it. Kinda scary to think Remington chambers their SAUMs in model Seven's.
BTW, how hot did you load it? Were you using 140-grain bullets?
Sun, 2004-05-02 20:34#8
The 140's made the most sense. Nosler BT's. What I wanted to shoot were the Speer 145's. RL 19.
I got the 145's up to 2930 out of 22" barrel.
I had the 140's up at 2960 out of a 22" barrel.
They were full and flattening primers.
I've got one of the Browning micro hunters in 300 wsm. Ready to hunt it weighs in at 7 3/4 lbs. I've loaded and shot 150's -200's through it. The recoils a bit more than the 30-06, but not very noticable. The nice straight stock helps. I can tuck it right in. It's real comfortable to shoot for a rifle that throws a 180 at around 3000. The 200's kick like a mule. I did some figures on ft/lbs of recoil for the 150's, 165's and 180's. They were running from the mid 20's to the low 30's. Haven't run any figures on the 200's yet. Don't know if I want to. I might not shoot them if I had that info.
I try to get out with this rifle every week to get proficient with it. I should be ready to hunt with it this fall. Took it to the gun smith to have a few minor adjustments done. Trigger set at 3 3/4 lbs. and the clip smoothed out so the rounds feed a little easier. Practice, practice , practice.
Mon, 2004-05-03 14:07#9
There you go!
Tue, 2004-05-04 06:59#10
While I like the 7mm-08, it will NEVER replace the .308 in my book. To be honest, though, its like so many arguments on this site, there's no critter that will ever know the difference. I still want a 7mm-08. But if I have to choose between the two, the 7mm is getting tossed. The .308 is just more powerful and versatile.