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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
Posts: 144
Shooting down hill

Glad to see my mistake can be turned into such a joke! I meant aim LOWER!

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Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 117
Shooting down hill

Still

We all gotta have a laugh now and again else it becomes to serious.

I agree practice makes perfect. But practicing angled distant shots is very tough for some of us. And using the cosine formula, especially with a built in indicator on the side of the scope-- its a heck of a lot better than flat just guessing.

FWIW I've wanted to prove to our shooting team a few things about wind drift at 600 yards in a certain rapid fire match. But I've never been able to get firm data. YOu know, all the angles and wind speeds in 5mph increments. So we work off computer calculations that match the drops we get. Use them for wind then and the wind has been extremely close if not dead on.

I think its gotta be the same for uphill or downhill. For average ranges most should shoot out to, a simple formula of horizontal distance, not slope distance, works very well.

Man I think the smoke is getting to me. Wink

Jeff

bitmasher's picture
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Location: Colorado
Joined: 02/27/2002
Posts: 2973
Shooting down hill

Since were burning ditch weed for the fire, I hesitate to throw in more on this thread... but here it goes....

The triangle stuff is just an approximation at best, it is not the complete solution. Precision ballistics calculations are not trivial.

If anybody is interested in learning more about ballistics and the math/physics behind the calculations, check out this interesting page. There are several links off to pages that discuss various models of ballistics.

What has been discussed regarding the triangle is a simplification of the vacuum model.

Its worth noting that for the ballistics models that have the fewest assumptions there is no analytical solution. However the equations can be solved numerically in order to get a useable result. That's a fancy way of saying the solutions are nasty.

And yes you can throw out the book when discussing firearms and elk. Wink

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Location: NE Minnesota
Joined: 01/14/2004
Posts: 144
Shooting down hill

My point is that in your typical hunting situation you are not going to carry a chart around telling you where to hold and even if you did who's to say the animal will give you enough time to refer(not REEFER!) to it. In some situations you may have time to use your rangefinder (since that is only way for this to be as accurate as we are talking about here)and check a chart if you are putting a stalk on the animal, but most times game animals don't cooperate. Personally that would be a last resort, I would try to get closer and get an easier shot; not always possible, I know.

I think technology is great, and I am a bit of an info junkie myself, but sometimes you just have to remember to K.I.S.S.!

P.S.- To ward off any accusations, that means Keep It Simple Stupid!

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Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 117
Shooting down hill

Maybe I can sum up your thoughts? 300 yards and less just hold a bit low. At beyond 300 yards I can almost bet that the animal is not aware of me and that I need to have input. Exact yardage, angle of elevation, wind speed, and holdover. Its why I (I'm kinda unique I suppose- due to my match shooting out to long ranges without sighters--gotta have firm data and dont' have much time to use it) I carry a wind speed meter, rangefinder, drop chart, and will have a cosine indicator on the next long range rifle.

On my last caribou shot I had lots of time to make the shot. But there was no cover over tundra height. IE none. Shoot or dont. Last day of hunt. You can bet that the 802 yard shot was complicated by the fact that I held for 600 due to the angle. Luckily our wind was 0-2mph. Or else the shot would really have been tough or not makeable.

On those complicated shots you have to have solid data. On the normal close ones, knock off 50 yards and shoot(IE hold low, but not super low in most instances)

FWIW I may carry a palm pilot with data next trip to Alaska. Of course I'm a long range shooting freak anyway......

Get as close as you can, but use your skills as needed.

Jeff

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Joined: 09/23/2004
Posts: 137
Shooting down hill
rost495 wrote:
Maybe I can sum up your thoughts? 300 yards and less just hold a bit low.

Jeff

Unless you are zeroed at 300 I would have to disagree with that statement. I mean if you're zeroed at 100 and its a severve angled shot at 300 it might shoot more like 250 or 200, but it certainly won't shoot less than 100. so you would have to aim higher, just not as much as a 300 yard shot on flat.

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Joined: 10/30/2004
Posts: 117
Shooting down hill

Shato

Touche! I typed and did not convey my exact thoughts. Hold just a bit lower than you would on a horizontal shot of any range out to 300. IE if its a 200 yard shot uphill(or down) instead of holding for a flat 200 yard shot, just hold a bit lower. I'd assumed that was understood but ya know how that ole word goes Wink

Jeff

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Location: Maine
Joined: 12/29/2004
Posts: 21
Shooting down hill

I went from thinking what was being said to..... just---> lol lol
Wink

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