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There are already programs in place to help those older folks get medical care and for those born with illnesses. I would never advocate just sitting someone aside to die just cause they are gonna be dead soon anyways. We are all just a split second from death at any given moment.

What I was commenting on was a Government sponsored medical insurance program paid for by tax dollars. I would have a hard time supporting that for the reasons previously stated. I believe that getting a grip on and controlling cost is what is needed most. Then insurance should, concievably , be more affordable. Tort reform, IMO, has to be the first step in controlling cost. As a contractor I can tell you that a good portion of my charge for services belong to my Liability Insurance obligation.

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Location: hanover, pa
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all of the above can be reconciled if we do 1 thing. and that is enact and force TERM LIMITS on senators and representatives. elect them to only 2 terms. (like the president)if they cant get done what is correct for the people in 2-- 5 year terms GET OUT. this can be accomplished by all citizens of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, by voting your true colors. don't be a jerk--VOTE THE BA----DS OUT. stop the graf.

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Actually cdhunt, there are kinda, sorta already term limits. All of these guys come up for re-election anyways. Its our job, as voters, to keep track of their track records and voting em out on their butts.

By establishing term limits you would essentially be creating "lame duck" politicians for all. Once elected they know they have limited time anyways and no incentive to do anything but collect a paycheck and qualify for their retirement pension.
I really dont agree that the President has term limits. If we get a good one in there we cant keep him around for more than 8 years.

[ This Message was edited by: JTapia on 2004-01-31 19:13 ]

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Good point, Ex, it is very hard to be a part of a society without bearing at least some of the costs of the society. In other words a condition of being part of society requires that you take on some costs of others without much say in how said costs will be used (or an indirect say, i.e. referrendums, elected officials). Taxes are an example.

The art of a modern society is defining how much cost to individuals is worth the "greater good" of the society. The patriot act is a current example.

I'm not an advocate of socialized medicine. I firmly believe as a general rule that government regulated/monitored marketplaces (or just completely open marketplaces) can be more efficient than the same marketplace run by the government alone.

The problem is that the "medical marketplace" resists or does not fit the mold of a traditional competitive marketplace. When you are considering buying a new car, most folks call around to several dealers or compare similar models from several brands. Inevitably consumers will buy from vendors that offer the lowest cost to benefits ratio. This "commoditization" drives vendors to deliver the most bang for the buck, squeezing suppliers, and in general allowing costs to go down and efficiency of the marketplace to improve. (all assuming no monopolies). In a highly competitive marketplace, consumer literally drive pricing, with high priced folks left in the cold, fast.

If you have the flu, do you call around to five doctors and get the best price on the clinic visit and medicine costs? No way, nobody does. Chances are that you go to one doctor or one that will accept your insurance.

Prices are set by insurance agents, doctors, drug companies and government guidelines, with little incentive for competition. Consumers (patients) have little say in what things costs or the ability to find better deals. Can you even imagine doctors saying "Baby delivery, March Madness Blow Out, only $5999!!!"? Crazy as it sounds I think in some way things need to move this way....

The person (or group) that is able to unleash even a semi-competitive marketplace will do wonders for medical care.

[ This Message was edited by: bitmasher on 2004-01-31 23:46 ]

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Very well said Bitmasher.

I feel that we are along way from "March Maddness Baby Blow Out!!!".
Just look at recent attempts to stem the sale of Canadian drugs(cheaper) in the U.S.

Sometimes I do wonder if the rumors are true that there is a cure for AIDS, Common Cold, and some Cancers but that Drug companies hide it because there isn't any profit in the cure.

On another note, I hope some of our brothers to the north will share their feelings and thoughts about their state run Medical Care System here with us.

[ This Message was edited by: JTapia on 2004-02-01 09:59 ]

Joined: 01/06/2004
Posts: 10
Second Amendment

1. I have been on the trail and have not had time to read the posts.

2. Thanks for the great input.

3. Here are a couple of thoughts. On term limits. Lame ducks might not be so bad. Without the need to favor one lobby or another as a way to keep power, law makers might actually start acting in the interest of the people instead of their own reelection. The problem is, what do you do when you get a good one? There is also a constitutional question to term limits.

Health care . . . "Tort" is a big reason why medical costs are so high. Also government red tape requires additional office costs that are passed on to the patients. I would love a price list at the doctors. In large areas that might give folks an easy way to help choose and keep costs down. In alot of America there is only one doctor. In some places there is no doctor at all.
A mulit prong approach is needed. Insurance reform . . . The pre-existing condition exclusion has to be addressed. Lawsuit reform . . . Caps on pain and suffering. (At what point does one persons pain and suffering start to infringe on populations ability to buy health care? I am not talking about true economic damages.) Doctor reform . . . Removing and puniching corrupt and/or dangerous doctors.

A tantalizing idea I am going to look into . . . Manditory group insurance coverage form all employers that have more than 2 employees. Dollar for dollar tax deduction to the employer. No pre-existing condition exclusions from the insurance providers. (This is the basic concept).

I spent the last two days at the Muskogee gun show. Check out my second amendment page, http://www.waylandsmalley.com, for pictures of the show.

Thanks for your great input.

Wayland Smalley for Congress.

Joined: 01/06/2004
Posts: 10
Second Amendment

[ This Message was edited by: Wayland Smalley for Congress on 2004-02-01 22:05 ]

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I like your pics.

[ This Message was edited by: hunter777 on 2004-02-13 19:09 ]

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There are so many issues floating around in this thread, a person could spend days in this one. I'll pick an issue.

Kill the killers and maybe child molesters but be absolutely certain first.

It is a worthy goal, but I don't think that even DNA evidence lends absolute certainty. The reason is cases like "adolph munson" (linked above) where a doctor who testified against munson later was found to have misrepresented fact in not just munson's case but several others. When you put trust completely in DNA evidence the trust burden simply gets shifted to more people that intentionally or unintentionally can screw things up. No matter how smart we get, I think there are fundamental limits to how precise a jury system can be and with capital crime even 99.5% right isn't right enough, imo.

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Location: Idaho
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The list goes on and on, Bitmasher.

The links below should be a real wake-up for the honest American:

http://www.antioffline.com/crisis/misconduct.html

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=6&did=141

Junk Justice and Okie Science - Joyce Gilchrist:
http://www.bubbaworld.com/gilchrist.html

Best of Luck Mr Smalley. With criminals like Joyce Gilchrist operating within the OK Justice System, there is plenty of reason to shake things up.

Unfortunately, it's a nationwide epidemic. ;-/

[ This Message was edited by: mismary on 2004-02-15 01:51 ]

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