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Tndeerhunter's picture
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Bushnell Elite scopes

[quote=tool91]

 

This is the where I found the endurance hawke scope.  

I've found out that it's best to have a good quality glass on the optic. It's more important than anything else by far as I understand.  So looking at Bushnell Elite 3200 I've found a $230 scope with a similar magnification and a reticle that's good for low light, and what seems to be good optic. Any experience with this type?

END QUOTE

 

 

 

ADDED:

 

I'm not able to tell exactly which scope you're looking at, within that link. I will tell you that I have owned several Bushnell Elite series scopes (used to be B&L Elite scopes) and I have been satisfied with each and every one of them. Among the ones I've owned and still own are the 3200 1.5-4.5x32 (with FF reticle), 3200 2-7x32 with standard duplex and FF reticle, 3200 3-9x40 with standard duplex and 4200 3-9x40 with standard duplex.

I like the FF (Firefly reticle) but it's fairly heavy for target daytime use (deosn't bother me, but may you) and the FF option is only useful at the very fringes of low light use. For that use, or when hogs could be hunted legally way after SS, it's great. The standard duplex is a good one and works well for 99% of typical usage. There happens to be a killer closeout deal on the 4200 3-9x40 at Cabelas ($200) now that makes it the best value around for any similar scope up to $300. or more, IMHO. It is at least the equal of a Leupold VXII (I own about 20 Leupolds too)

Again, nothing wrong with a 3200 with FF reticle, but it's truly only most useful under extreme low light conditions (read that at the very fringe of most legal hunting). Going with any Bushnell Elite series with Rainguard feature (all have this) will also make you eligible for their rebate offer of a rain suit, paying only S&H.

 

 

Don Fischer's picture
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What makes good quality glass

tool91 wrote:

 

This is the where I found the endurance hawke scope.  

I've found out that it's best to have a good quality glass on the optic. It's more important than anything else by far as I understand.  So looking at Bushnell Elite 3200 I've found a $230 scope with a similar magnification and a reticle that's good for low light, and what seems to be good optic. Any experience with this type? 

 

 

And just what constitutes "good quailty glass"? I would venture that any $150 and up scope has more than good enough quality for hunting. As for the size of the lense, 40mm vrs 50mm, actually that has little to do with it. I would bet that in lab testing my very old Redfield Widefield 2 3/4x fixed scope will gather as much or more light as anything presently on the market. Any decent 3-9x scope will gather more light on 3x than it will on 9x. I would suggest taking a look at the Bushnell's on sale at Cabelas, sounds like a great deal to me.

Now what will make a difference in a good hunting scope is the reticule. Very fine reticules work great for target shooting but get lost in  poor light. Heavy reticules work well in low light but obscure a small target in any light. Reticules with range finding and/or adjusting garbage in them put things in there that just confuse the issue. The best reticule for me in the plain duplex with a fine cross wire; in as much as the old Redfield 4 plex is gone. In low light even it you can't see the center crosswire, the duplex part will let you know just where it's at. But even then, my experience has been if I can't see the center reticule on the lowest power, it's after legal shooting hours anyway!

Marketing and this tactical craze has made the scope a pretty miss understood thing. What you need is a tube that holds everything together with mechanics inside that adjust and hold zero well. You also need reticules of some type inside to use as an aiming point. The less busy those reticules are, the easier it is to use the scope. If you use a cartridge with a known point blank range, and you will, and you live within that PBR you will not need any of the other stuff. With most center fire cartridges today MPBR will be at 250+ yds, average shot at game is well less than that. I would say that if people learned to estimate range out to 300-350yds fairly accurately, there would be no need for even a range finder. But the rage today is to extend the range we shoot at game well beyond reasonable, which for me is a bit past MPBR. Once you go there you no longer need to concern yourself with hunting but rather you better concern yourself with shooting, for that is all it is.

 

There is a saying in the home building profession that applies here, "We ain't building a piano"! Tat's said to guys that get a bit to critical.

possum's picture
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Hawke Scopes

I have never seen a Hawke scope and don't know anyone who owns one. IMO, a scope that is 1.5X4.5X24 will not have a big enough objective lens for sufficient light transmission to be good in low light situations. Look for a scope that has atleast 90% light transmission for low light shots which means a 40mm or 50mm objective lens. How far are you planning to shoot ? I would'nt even consider a scope in that category for low light shooting

Tndeerhunter's picture
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scope low light capability

possum wrote:

I have never seen a Hawke scope and don't know anyone who owns one. IMO, a scope that is 1.5X4.5X24 will not have a big enough objective lens for sufficient light transmission to be good in low light situations. Look for a scope that has atleast 90% light transmission for low light shots which means a 40mm or 50mm objective lens. How far are you planning to shoot ? I would'nt even consider a scope in that category for low light shooting

 

 

The objective size of a scope has nothing to do with it's capability of light transmission. What does concern light transmission is the quality of the lenses and the coatings present on those lenses, along with the apeture size, just like a camera. It is simply not true that a 50mm, 44mm, or similar is needed for low light shooting. There is something commonly known as the "twilight factor" (also other terms) which is a term used to show how much useful light is transferring through a scope to a human eye.

Depending on the particular person's eyes and age, the twilight factor might be effective to a high of as much as 6 or 7, down to a low of around four, for older less effective eyes. (It is a known fact that aging also causes a reduction of night vision acuity). The way to figure this twilight factor is actually very simple. Simply take the objective size and divide it by the scope's power (magnification).

This clearly would show that a 1-4x20 scope set at 2X of equal glass & coating quality would equal the low light capability of a 4X32 scope. That same 4x32 scope, again of equal quality would also equal the low light capability of a 50mm scope set on 7X (since both these would come out to over the max of seven, both would be just as bright as possibly could be usable by the human eye). Of course they would all be of equal low light capabilities if giving a twilight factor of 4-6, dependent upon the user's eyesight. A 1-4x20 set at 4X would give better low light performance than a 4-12x50 set at 12X.

If someone is interested in shooting at very long distances under very low light conditions, then a scope needing higher magnification would also need a larger objective. BUT, this would not allow/provide more light to the eye, but merely the same light as a lower powered (smaller objective scope), but at a higher magnification. 

 

 

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Leupold would be my choice

Like Don who posted above I have never heard of the Hawke or Vortex. I have had Bushnell, Simmions, and Tasco optics and have moved on to others that I consider better.  Bushnell and Burris make good lower cost scopes if you are going to spend about $100.  But if you are going to spend $200 or more as you mentioned, then I highly recommend Leupold scopes.  They come with a lifetime warranty among other attractive features.  I find them clearer, steadier, and have better light gathering abilities than the other barnds that I have mentioned. If cost is a factor you may wish to consider buying a used scope as well.  If it is a scope with a warranty like the Leupold you can often find a used one for about eighty percent of the cost of a new one.  Welcome to shooting.  Let us know what you decide and how you make out. 

groovy mike's picture
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Let me add Cameraland recomemndation too

BTW - one of the sponsors of this site is Cameraland.  Despite the name, they also carry excellent optics. :thumbsup1:  It would be worth clicking on one of their banner adds and checking out their inventory:

www.cameralandny.com/

I see that they carry Vortex scopes too!

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I have the same Vortex possum

I have the same Vortex possum does (Viper 6.5-20X44PA) it is a great scope for the money.  Everything else I own is Nikon or Leupold but I would not hesitate to buy another Vortex now.

 

Mine is mounted on a Rock River Varminter and puts out some good groups.  As with any other high magnification scope when you dial it all the way up light, eye relief and hold all have to be just right to get a good sight picture.

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ndemiter's picture
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bushnell elite 3200?

you know? instead of spending the $230  on the bushnell elite, get a nikon buckmasters for the same money!!!  (i can't put enough exclamations behind that one)

a leupold vx-1 is also a huge step up from bushnell construction.

both are about the same money and will serve you better. just my opinion.

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