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expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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Schiavo case

Personally, I think it's a tragedy if someone feels life is no longer worth living and takes their own life.

But I think it's far worse for someone to look at you and decide that in their estimation your life isnt worth living, and for them to pull the plug on you. I know a couple that has a severely handicapped son that relies on a feeding tube. He's a part of their family and goes where they go in his wheelchair. He interacts with them, but has extremely limited capacities. Should they be allowed to say, "Well, he shouldn't have to live like this", pull the tube, and let him die of dehydration? There's not a doubt in my mind that if they did that they'd go to jail for felony child abuse or even murder.

If you starved a dog to death, you'd go to jail. Terri Schiavo isn't on life support -- all she needs is someone to feed her. Yes, she's pretty far gone. But just how intelligent do you have to be in order to have the right to continued life? This is a question of involuntary euthanasia. If Michael Schiavo wanted to give his wife a lethal injection, how would this be handled? The only difference is that the method being used is more cruel.

Let me ask this -- if that was Laci Peterson in there, would we allow Scott to pull the tube? The only person to claim she stated a desire to die was Schiavo -- and he made that claim seven years into her current state.

People aren't trying to protect Schiavo from herself -- they're trying to protect her from the husband that wants to kill her.

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Location: St. Paul, MN
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Schiavo case

Funny how conservatives with all their "sanctity of marriage" talk are quick to intervene in a decision that is between a husband and wife. The law of this land is pretty clear and all the posturing by Frist and Delay won't change it. Yes, it is terrible what has happened to Mrs Schiavo, no doubt. However, her wish was not to be kept alive by atrificial means. We know this because the person who knew her best and the only person in the position to make the decision is her husband. Without a living will, his decision must and will stand. The political move by the right is failing and with good reason. Federalism aside, her parents have no standing.

If you starved a dog to death, you'd go to jail. - For no reason, yes. If your dog was hit by a car and braindead, you would put it down.

Terri Schiavo isn't on life support -- all she needs is someone to feed her.
- My living will clearly defines a feeding tube with no possible means of recovery as life support.

But just how intelligent do you have to be in order to have the right to continued life? -It is not a matter of intelligence, it is a matter of martial rights and the rule of law, something the right says they are for; provided you believe as they do.

Let me ask this -- if that was Laci Peterson in there, would we allow Scott to pull the tube?
- Had he not murdered her and the result of her condition was not because of him, then yes, the law states he would make that decision.

Again, this situation is terrible. The fact that it was politicized is terrible as well

expatriate's picture
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Schiavo case

Alright, MNHunter, let me run this past you.

Yesterday on Fox they interviewed Dr. Bill Hammesfahr, who was nominated for a Nobel Prize in 1999 for his work with stroke an brain injury victims. He has spent hours examining Terri Schiavo in person and states that she is in fact responsive and could be rehabilitated to the point of speech. He also referenced 33 brain injury specialists from around the country (to include UCLA, Tulane, LSU, Boston University) who say the same thing.

Hammesfahr says that he has treated patients who were in much worse shape than Schiavo, and achieved results, which he will publish.

So here's the question -- wouldn't you say there is sufficient evidence to suggest the possibility that Terri Schiavo is not in fact "brain dead" as you put it? We're talking about a human life here -- doesn't it make sense to be sure? If Terri Schiavo were on death row and people came forward with evidence to possibly exhonerate her, she would've already been given a stay of execution to examine the evidence.

Why are people in so much of a hurry to see this woman die? What if she wants to live and is unable to communicate it?

The only evidence that she wants to die is her husband's statement to that effect. It's not backed by any witnesses. It's also a statement he didn't remember for the first SEVEN YEARS of her current state. Suddenly, after 7 years, he suddenly decides she didn't want to live that way? Come on...

This is a human life. I say the default ought to be that the person wants to live unless you can prove they wanted to die -- not the other way around.

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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Schiavo case

Dr: "I'm sorry, Mrs. Smith, but it was a terrible accident. Your husband is on life support in ICU and at this point we're unsure of his prognosis."

Wife: "NO! He's my everything! Please doctor -- you've got to do everything you can for him!"

Dr: "We certainly will, ma'am. By the way, we found a receipt for a million dollar life insurance policy in your husband's wallet dated two weeks ago. You might want to make sure everything's in order if things go badly."

Wife: "He what? Wait a minute...I just remembered he once said he never wanted to be kept alive on life support..."

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Location: AZ
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Schiavo case

he moved on within months of her accident. he has already destroyed the sanctity of his marriage to her, by HAVING AN AFFAIR. he also waited until AFTER he had won the malpratice suit to remember that terri wouldn't want to live like this. adn he could get a divorce:

Quote:
General: Mental incapacity for at least 3 years. [Florida Statutes Annotated; Chapter 61.052].
http://www.divorcesource.com/info/divorcelaws/florida.shtml

that would however, give custody and the $$ to her parents instead of him!

in 2001:

Quote:
Apr 25 - Schiavo ex girlfriend (Cyndi) reveals Schiavo lied about Terri’s death wishes.

Apr 26 - Judge Greer refuses to hear new evidence about Schiavo’s lying.

Apr 26 - New evidence compels Civil court Judge Quesada to resume Terri's feeding.

how in the heck is this even still and issue????!!!!!!!!!!

source: http://www.terrisfight.org/timeline.html

alicia

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Location: AZ
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Schiavo case
Quote:
If you starved a dog to death, you'd go to jail. - For no reason, yes.

can you please tell me a reason for starving a dog to death? one that doesn't result in you going to jail.

Quote:
If your dog was hit by a car and braindead, you would put it down.

yes, with either a bullet or lethal injection. neihter of which results in the animals organs shutting down one by one taking as long as a month!

alicia

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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Schiavo case

Also, MNHunter, I don't think you'll find a conservative out there that will argue that marital rights should authorize you to kill your spouse if they're unable to protest it.

We're opening a real barrel of monkeys if we set a precedent that grants total power of attorney (even over life and death) to a spouse in the event of incapacitation. There should be conclusive legal evidence that the person clearly wanted to die. In its absence, the default should be to life.

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Location: St. Paul, MN
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Schiavo case

All of that is really touching....but it doesn't change the law. Schiavo is her husband and has stated Terri' s wishes. He has turned down 10 million $ to give up his right to make medical decisions. Money is not an issue here.
Yes, he has a girlfriend and children by her, with Terri's parents' blessing. He is still Terri's husband trying to carry out her wishes.

Look, I agree..the situation sucks. If everyone had a living will this wouldn't be an issue. But she didn't and therefore you must follow the law. Don't like the law? Change it. You want to err on the side of life, Mr. President? Why did you sign a bill in TX that gives the husband the right to make decisions in a case like this? Why did you govern over 150+ executions? Hmmm....political posturing in the Schaivo case?

Expatriate, you mentioned the Dr. up for the Nobel. I've heard him, he is quoted by everyone who disagrees with the law of FL. Did he testify at the hearings? I know a lot of Dr.'s testified to the opposite. For example:
Ronald Cranford of the University of Minnesota, a neurologist who was among those who made a previous diagnosis of Schiavo, said “there isn’t a reputable, credible neurologist in the world who won’t find her in a vegetative state.”
Did the Nobel Doc examine a video and decide everyone else was wrong like the Dr., I mean Senator who believes you can get AIDS from shaking hands? If she could be helped as the Nobel Doc says, why hasn't he helped? Whay hasn't the hospice done something in the last 15 years?
My point in this whole thing is this: No one outside of the immediate partys know the whole story. Therefore, everyone should stay the heck out of the ordeal. That means protesters on both sides, Congress, the President, and the Federal courts. The case was decided in FL court according to the law. Don't like it? Change the law in your state and/or make your wishes expressed on paper.

P.S. I don't ever think there is a good reason to starve a dog.

expatriate's picture
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Schiavo case

Quoted from Hannity & Colmes:

HAMMESFAHR: I spent about 10 hours with Terri across three separate occasions, and I spent a lot of time with videotapes, the medical record which is in boxes and boxes and boxes. for about a year. And of course, you know, I spending time interviewing the family and people who actually have seen her. So I've spent a lot of time with her.

HANNITY: Do you believe she is aware, conscious and responsive?

HAMMESFAHR: Terri is completely aware and conscious and responsive. She is like a child with cerebral palsy. We have kids in the Pinellas County school system every day that are much worse than her, that we're educating.

MNHunter, if you're referring to Senator Frist with the AIDS comment, I don't believe he's ever been nominated for a Nobel Prize for AIDS research. Hammesfahr has been nominated for the very subject area involving Terri Schiavo. I say again -- we have a Nobel Prize nominee in the field of brain injury stating that she is cognizant. I don't know if he testified. Are we in such a big hurry that he can't be heard?

All we have to back the "living will" claim is Michael Schiavo. What if she never said such a thing and he just wants her dead? Should he be allowed?

I know a couple that has a son with severe cerebral palsy. They wheel him around in a wheelchair, and he relies on a feeding tube to stay alive. Should those parents be allowed to decide that his life isn't worth living, pull the tube, and let him die? Legally they have custody and speak for him. You might argue that the child has never been able to speak for himself. But there's no evidence to say Terri Schiavo ever did, either -- other than the word of her husband.

And I believe you'll find that criminals condemned to die in Texas have all evidence evaluated and are given stays if new evidence comes forward. Terri Schiavo hasn't broken a single law, and she is getting less review than a condemned prisoner.

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Location: St. Paul, MN
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Schiavo case

Expatriate,

Quote:
I say again -- we have a Nobel Prize nominee in the field of brain injury stating that she is cognizant.

-We also have many more Neurologists who disagree with him.

Quote:
All we have to back the "living will" claim is Michael Schiavo. What if she never said such a thing and he just wants her dead? Should he be allowed?

- Only Mr. Schiavo knows his motive. From everything I know, there is nothing for me to conclude that he is not being sincere. Absent that, the law states he can carry out what he and no one else can claim: she told him her wishes.

Quote:
I know a couple that has a son with severe cerebral palsy. They wheel him around in a wheelchair, and he relies on a feeding tube to stay alive. Should those parents be allowed to decide that his life isn't worth living, pull the tube, and let him die? Legally they have custody and speak for him. You might argue that the child has never been able to speak for himself.

-I'm sorry. That is an even stickier situation and I won't comment on it.

Expatriate, I respect your opinion but I believe as I do. I hope I ( or you) never have to make a decision like Mr. Schiavo. If you or I do, I hope we are allowed to make the personal decision without the intrusion of any legislators.

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Location: Colorado
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Posts: 394
Schiavo case

This is a difficult situation and I try to look at both sides. If it was my daughter, would I want the tube pulled? I don't know.

Criticizing him for having an affair, I think, is completely unfair. His wife has been in a vegetative state for 15 YEARS, for God's sake! When do you allow the man to get on with his life?

I am also not impressed that one neurologist has now come out of the woodwork to proclaim she might be able to be brought back to some extent. Many different neurologists have examined and treated her over the last decade-and-a-half and ALL of them have said there is no chance of her ever being conscious of anything going on around her. It is always easy enough to find ONE person to disagree with all of the other experts, if you look around.

Mostly, though, I am thoroughly disgusted with Bush and Congress for trying to insert themselves into this. Whatever else is the case, this is most definitely NOT a matter for the federal government! This is a state issue, and should be left to the Florida courts.

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