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expatriate's picture
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The sobering truth of American democracy is that the rights of Americans aren't protected by the Constitution.  The Constitution is just a sheet of paper with words on it.  American freedoms ultimately depend on the willpower to defend those words.  If the American people won't exert the will to demand compliance with it...if Congress lacks the will to confront a president who refuses to abide by it...if a president doesn't feel compelled to honor it...or if the Supreme Court isn't interested in defending it, the paper means nothing.  If anyone doubts this, they need only remember 100,000 Americans driven out of their homes and imprisoned behind barbed wire during WWII based solely on their ethnicity.  The only way Americans will ever gain a tyrannical government is through complacency, cowardice, and by surrendering themselves to groupthink.  If it happens, we have only ourselves and our neighbors to blame.

Ca_Vermonster's picture
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Stop it with the conspiracy

Stop it with the conspiracy theories guys.  ........ I actually have a whole thing typed out in response, but somehow it triggered the "Spam filter" and won't be accepted..... lol

JTapia...... We train with what we carry on duty.  Would you use cheap ammo to sight in your rifle before an elk hunt, then only use the good stuff on the hunt itself?  Also, just my small part of DHS, just for one year, just basic qualifications and issue, uses 24 MILLION rounds (All Hollowpoint). It's cheaper to buy in bulk.  And, tell the Agents on the southern border that they only encounter average american citizens going to work, and the'll probably have an answer to that.....

Critter's picture
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spam

Ca_Vermonster wrote:

Stop it with the conspiracy theories guys.  ........ I actually have a whole thing typed out in response, but somehow it triggered the "Spam filter" and won't be accepted..... lol

They are starting to track your movements now.

You may want to dig out that tinfoil hat just to be safe. Help!

expatriate's picture
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Conspiracy

Actually the border guys down here do encounter a lot of average American citizens.  Setting up checkpoints miles from the border where you pull everyone over and ask about citizenship status, etc will do that.  It used to be possible in this country to travel without having to explain yourself or get felt up by a stranger.  Increasingly intrusive and heavy-handed interactions with the law-abiding public tends to feed resentment and suspicion.

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Oh no not I

CA_Vermonster, I think you have misjudged me, I am no conspiracy theorist I simply stating facts and pointing out that this "concerning" activity has been going on for sometime.

No matter how you try and explain things away as "issued ammo" the numbers just do not add up and that doesn't even take into consideration the MRAPs. You say that DHS uses "24 MILLION hollow point rounds" each year and I do not doubt you however that absolutely does not account for the purchase of 450 MILLION Rounds, 1.6 BILLION total rounds to date. To me that is concerning. I will concede that ammo is cheaper in bulk but 450 million when you use only 24 million per year? Is that a wise expenditure considering that now there will be massive layoffs of DHS agents? Should that money be better spent on salaries for these agents?

http://www.infowars.com/big-sis-refuses-to-answer-congress-on-ammo-purchases/

This administration has been completely dishonest with the citizens about almost every aspect of government so if I don't trust them buying 1.6 billion rounds of ammo and Armored Vehicles for non combat government agents all the while telling me I should not be able to own firearms and certain kinds of ammo. A good citizen of the USA is expected to look sideways at their government or risk losing your Liberty before you even know it is being taken, just look at things now.

I'll not tell the southern border agents anything, not my place and I apologize for not exempting them in my comments however I would expect any of them to answer me in a respectful tone if I did decide at mention this too them, much the same respectful tone that you have extended to me here. smile

 

 

BikerRN's picture
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Numbers

Some of us have been going over the numbers and quite frankly, they don't add up.

I wouldn't put it past this administration to be preparing for civil unrest, detention of citizens, and many other travesties. Looking at past history some of the signs, and syptoms, of past wars, revolt, and political upheaval are brewing right here in our homeland. That scares me and makes me less trustful of those that are voted on to "represent" us.

Yes, DHS uses a lot of ammo in training but if you do the math you may see that even for a five year supply the amounts ordered are excessive. Also, the vehicles, so many? I know the boder is a war zone, I live there, but it looks more and more like we are turning in to a Police State.

I want to be wrong but I fear I am not.

Ca_Vermonster's picture
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JTAPIA, not DHS, but JUST

JTAPIA, not DHS, but JUST Border Patrol (My small part, as I said) uses 24 Million rounds, annually, at the very least.  Probably closer to 40+ Million if you figure in specialty training.  Multiply that times 5 years, the length of this contract, and it adds up to 200 million, JUST for Border Patrol.  That's for about 20,000 agents, give or take, and there are 70,000 total armed agents in all agencies of DHS.  So, 70,000 is 3.5 times 20,000.  If you take the estimate of 200 million, multiply it by 3.5, you get 700 Million rounds, actually quite a bit ABOVE the amount of .40 cal they say they are buying (450).

So yes guys, the numbers DO add up.  No 2 ways around it.  As for the vehicles, yes, that is puzzling, but who knows.  As for the ammo, it is 100% legit. And that's only .40 cal, not even talking about .223, which we use lots of.........

Not trying to argue with you guys, just trying to quell the conspiracy rumors.  These ammo numbers absolutely do add up, and I can state that with the utmost certainty........

expatriate's picture
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And yet if it's all above board and perfectly legit, why did DHS start hiding its purchases from public visibility?  And why is Napolitano refusing to answer questions about it?

It has generally been my experience that when somebody starts putting a lot of energy into explaining why they shouldn't have to answer a question, it's because they don't want you to know the answer.  And the louder they protest the line of questioning instead of answering the mail, the closer you're getting to the heart of the matter.

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Administration

expatriate wrote:

And yet if it's all above board and perfectly legit, why did DHS start hiding its purchases from public visibility?  And why is Napolitano refusing to answer questions about it?

It has generally been my experience that when somebody starts putting a lot of energy into explaining why they shouldn't have to answer a question, it's because they don't want you to know the answer.  And the louder they protest the line of questioning instead of answering the mail, the closer you're getting to the heart of the matter.

This sounds like the whole Obama administration. A lot of it is also that when you can't come up with a expatiation that you believe that then nest thing is that it is a conspiracy.

 I'll go back under my tinfoil hat now.

BikerRN's picture
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Nail On The Head

expatriate wrote:

And yet if it's all above board and perfectly legit, why did DHS start hiding its purchases from public visibility?  And why is Napolitano refusing to answer questions about it?

It has generally been my experience that when somebody starts putting a lot of energy into explaining why they shouldn't have to answer a question, it's because they don't want you to know the answer.  And the louder they protest the line of questioning instead of answering the mail, the closer you're getting to the heart of the matter.

expatriate Hits the nail on the proverbial head yet once again. Government, and it's agents, are answerable to the people, not the people to the government.

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