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bitmasher's picture
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So much for keeping schools a temple of the three R's.

Even if "political agendas" are kept out of schools, kids import it themselves.

Here is a better link.

[ This Message was edited by: bitmasher on 2004-03-14 22:51 ]

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Well there we go again.....Another Florida fiasco. Thanks Bitmasher!! :smile:

The thought process of some people will just never cease to amaze me. Thousands of Pigs are slaughtered everyday...why is this one so different to those few students?

I also wonder if those vegaterians realize that the fertilizer used to grow their vegis often contains slaughter-house by-products.

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I also wonder if those vegaterians realize that the fertilizer used to grow their vegis often contains slaughter-house by-products.

Good point. I'm not sure they would like to know that.

Personally I have nothing against vegans, its the militant variety that grate on my nerves.

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I've actually had some unpleasant encounters with vegan radicals on other message forums. You can't tell them anything because they will not understand no matter how hard you try. Besides, their notion that a diet free of animal-protein is more healthy than one containing animal-protein is purely fictitious.

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Captain_Oblvilous: "Besides, their notion that a diet free of animal-protein is more healthy than one containing animal-protein is purely fictitious. "

Hey Captain- I'm just curious- where do you get your information from?
Everything I've ever read regarding animal protien has stated pretty much that animal protien is much more harmful to human health than vegetable protien- but then again- My sources might be wrong right?

here's some of what I found for "animal protein" diet under google:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-03/yu-dhi030804.php
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0887/2_21/83661570/p1/article.jhtml
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dop...
http://www.fwhc.org/health/high-protein-diet.htm

I believe your notion that "animal protein is superior" theory is wrong- can you please educate me a little on why you believe this?
Thanks,
V_C

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Well, Vegas Hannibal, I eat plenty of beef, pork and poultry, and you know what? Odds are I am in far better shape than you are. Does that count?

You're pitching your argument to show only one angle, I didn't say a diet FULL of animal protein, I said one CONTAINING animal protein. If I have a dinner that consists of skinless chicken breast or turkey breast, and in addition, I have fresh pasta and a salad filled with plenty of green, leafy veggies and carrots, plus a glass of orange juice, how is that unhealthy? Or.... look at it this way: a vegetarian, doesn't eat meat, doesn't eat any at all, ever, but eats french fries, fatty cheeses, and other high sodium and cholesterol yummies, I would say that the person whose diet includes large amounts of those listed in the second category, as so many Americans' diets do, is far more screwed than the person whose diet consists mainly of foods like those in the first category. Lastly, I would be more willing to accept nutritional advice from someone who is competent to spell the word ''protein'' correctly.

PS. My source? The Food Guide Pyramid! Oh, that, and the World Almanac health-food and nutrition section.

many, many thanks:

C_O

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and now a word from Vegas_Hannibal..
Captain_Obvious wrote:
Well, Vegas Hannibal, I eat plenty of beef, pork and poultry, and you know what? Odds are I am in far better shape than you are. Does that count?

I seriously doubt that, but whatever....

FYI- cheese isn't vegetarian (it comes from animals) & also there is no cholesterol in plant based foods

I can see what your saying, "some" animal foods can be benneficial in one's diet- I'll agree to point. However most people far exceed healthy animal food intakes and this causes the biggest health problems- these people usually think that there is nothing wrong with their diets too-

V_H

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Oh? You seriously doubt it, huh? Hmmm.. let's see: can you run a 5:20 mile? Can you bench 100 lbs more than you weigh? Have you ever competed in a marathon event? Do you work your tail off in the heat 4 days a week? If not, keep dreaming!

Most vegetarians I know eat cheese and rationalize this by stating the animal doesn't have to die to gives us the milk product that we make our cheese with. Since cardiovascular illness is the leading cause of death in adults, the causes of it are certainly worth looking into. Genetics influence the risk of some cardionvascular diseases, as do certain drugs. Other diseases, like kidney diseases, or disorders of the metabolic/endocrine system can cause high blood pressure, a cardiovascular ailment. Bad habits like smoking cause narrowing of the arteries, and plays a big role in causing heart attacks, thrombosis, and strokes. Aside from this, you do not need to eat meat to be at risk of death from cancer or heart disease. There are plenty of non-meat foods that pack plenty of cholesterol. You seem to be wanting to blame all these conditions on meat, but guess what? You're wrong! Does meat cause skin cancer, the country's most frequent form of malignant tumor? NO! Does it cause lung cancer, the type that presently has the highest mortality rate? NAH! Bad diet in general increases the risk of death from heart attacks and strokes, but none of this specifically implicates meat, it implicates many different types of fatty foods! Last time I checked, french fries, fried onion rings, hash browns, and various types of desserts do not contain meat, but they sure can raise your cholesterol. Your efforts at baiting and trying to illustrate only those facts that seem to prove your points are wasted, because your information is incomplete. eye roll

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Captain_Obvious wrote:
Oh? You seriously doubt it, huh? Hmmm.. let's see: can you run a 5:20 mile? Can you bench 100 lbs more than you weigh? Have you ever competed in a marathon event? Do you work your tail off in the heat 4 days a week? If not, keep dreaming!eye roll

actaully my personal best is last years 5:11 for 1600 metres, I haven't ran yet this year out doors but I'm going for under 5:00 this year. I'm a competitive mountain biker also- I swim 5 days a week. I can't bench 100 lbs more than my body weight but I can bench somewhere around 250 which is not too shabby- and so far this year I AM training for a local triathlon in the summer- I'm honed!
You obviously are in good shape if you can run a 5:20 mile- but I'm faster
lets just hope you can't catch me!

there's many vegan athletes out there- it doesn't appear that eating meat makes you slower or stronger than a Veg*n athlete. However, believe it or not some research shows that vegan athletes have a quicker recovery time on average than their meat eating peers with the same injury. I wish I had a link but I can't find one to back this up, sorry.

No offence to your Vegetarian friends that eat dairy products but... http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vegetarian
(actually this is something debated about in the veg*n community as well- but how can cheese be vegetarian if it comes from an animal?)

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At the chemical level there is no distinction between animal derived protein and plant derived protein. "High Protein" is erronously used as short for a "meat" diet, its not the protein that is the problem, rather it is the saturated fats that go along with it.

I concede that a balanced vegetarian diet is healthier than the same caloric intake from animal derived products, especially if the diet is high in lard. For a sedentary nation, our collective health care bills would be lower if we ate less fat and more green. For an active lifestyle I suspect there is little difference.

This isn't an arguement for vegetarian absolutism though, rather it is a good example that we would all be healthier if we ate better.

P.S. It takes an educated person to be a true vegetarian. Education because there are very few complete protein plants (it is easy to go veg w/o knowledge and do more harm than good). Being a vegan, like being a hunter, is not for everybody.

P.S.S. If you really want to live longer by diet alone, the only proven method is ultra low calorie intake over the course of decades. This is truly radical, ultra low means sub 500 calories per day. So low that your body temperature actually decreases a few degrees because your metabolism has slowed. Studies have shown over and over again that simply good diet and high exercise does not push the legevity folocrum up, because metabolism is actually pushed higher. Furthermore these ultra-low-calorie-people are forced to eat some meats because it is virtually impossible to achieve the caloric goal, w/o meat, far too much vegatables are required to stay in the calorie limit and make enough protein to prevent net catabolism of muscle.

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Here's the problem: you're training to be a triathlete, while I've already compteted in both the Disney and Boston Marathons, both being 26.2 mile races. I weigh 182 lbs, and bench over 100 lbs more than my body weight. I eat lean meats rather than higher fat stuff like ground beef. Venison, sliced turkey, and veal are my preferences in the meat group. Trying to tell me I'm unhealthy is stupid, and it was you, not me, that started the name calling. You picked the wrong person to go rounds with.

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