Lots of good thoughts in this thread...

cob: I don't think hunting is a rich man's sport if you do 3 things: hunt in state, have access to good public land, and stick to typical species (deer). Go outside these 3 items and things start getting expensive fast, especially if you have a taste for new guns and techno-toys (personally I don't, but have nothing against those that do). You also make an excellent point on the out of state license fees. I am patently against their being more than a 10% cost difference between in-state and out-of-state licenses (the 10% being used for differences in paperwork costs for an in-state vs out-of-state). That being said, I have been at DOW meetings where the anti-out-of-stater retoric gets to near xenophobic proportions.

Oh and regarding the CO-TX dislike. Your former governor had no problem winning big in CO the last election. If popular election is any judge it doesn't sound like CO distrusts Texasan that much.

expatriate: I believe there is a type of "uber-hunter" that spends big-bucks yearly on hunting. Orp's friend at 40k is certainly one of these (the median U.S. household income is ~42k or less, so Orp's friend is spending on just hunting alone what nearly half of all U.S. families live on in one year). Your example with Ted Turner is also a good one too. These uber-hunter's are relatively rare, but their buying patterns are influental on the rest of the crowd.

orp: thanks for laying out your LA costs, that shows where the big expenses are.

Orp:
Ouch. Lousiana deer must be good eating. I see your point. I was thinking in terms of local hunting, but I can see how expensive it'd get if you go out of state.

I used to work with a guy from Louisiana who constantly bragged about duck hunts down there. Don't know if you're into ducks or not, but given the price of the trip I think I'd be tempted to take a shotgun with me in case I got the deer early. According to Louisiana, all you need as a non-resident is a hunting license, which you'll have anyway, a $25 LA duck license, and a $15 federal duck stamp.

Good luck with the trip.

cob, I think that hunting has got out of hand on prices for firearms and ammo.

But people don't relize why the price of a guided hunt is so pricey. The guide or outfitter spends hours and months of scouting putting up tree stands, or building blinds for his sports so they can have a good hunt.
Then after the sport bags game the guide or outfitter takes care of the game, by skinning and processing it.

This is why it cost so to go and have a great time in the out of doors.

[ This Message was edited by: maineguide on 2002-11-03 17:46 ]

Is the wealthy hunter really enjoying himself when he pays two months of my salery to go hunting for a week?HUMMM I wonder. I can go hunting with one of my sons or grand sons for one day and i bet we enjoy the day more than they enjoy the whole week,even if we come home empty handed.
it's just never been my style to hire a guide and have him drive me to a stand, point out the animal, load my gun and tell me when to shoot. Then spend the next two hours telling me what a great hunter that I am while he just made 3 grand off of a fool.
local hunters have to do all they can to keep the land owners happy and don't distroy anything while hunting. Where i live most of the farms are now owned by fifth avenue farmers and about the only way to hunt is to own some land next to them.Just MHO.

[ This Message was edited by: 12ga. mag. on 2002-11-05 14:01 ]

I'm with you 12ga mag on the guided hunt issue. I've never been on a guided hunt partially because i cant afford it but mostly because it seems like the guide would get to do the fun part. I know of a small time guide that has a buck on his ranch whos sheds from 2 years ago scored 225 B&C and they say he's still young. I don't know how big he is now, but this guy has watched him grow and tracked his movement for several years and when he decideds that buck is as big as he's going to get the guide is going to let somebody pay him $30,000 to shoot it. to me, shooting that deer would be about as fun as buying his antlers on ebay. so, 12ga, you're right, i think i'll have much more fun working my butt off for a small buck than the guy thats going to pay 30 grand to ride up beside that trophy and shoot him.

I tend to agree with you in principle on the guided hunt issue. However, is somebody down here in Alabama wants to hunt elk he doesn't have much choice. Sure, it's possible for him to load up the truck and head for national forest land in Colorado. But now you have a southern flatlander 9,000 feet up in the Rockies in November with potentially little or no experience with the area, altitude, climate, or his prey. There's a safety factor involved, not just the safari factor.

In our part of the country (Colorado) guides do a lot more than just drive you to the animal. In fact often times, you will be packed in by horses or mules because the terrain is rough. Some guides will guide on their own property, but many use public land that is available to everyone. A good guide, will do just that 'guide you' so you can be successful in your hunt.

During warm falls (like we had in 2001) chances are pretty good that even with a guide you will not bag your elk or deer.

Then some folks just like the accommodations that comes along with a guided hunt, which can vary widely from camping to being catered too in a luxurious lodge.

I think guided hunts are a great way to go for someone that is hunting in an unfamiliar area for the first time, and pricing varies widely. If you're on a budget you need to shop and ask around. There are some really good ones out there that do not charge a fortune. For most guides the guiding business is a sideline to their farming and/or ranching business.

Just my 2 cents...

I can understand the safty issue thing. I didn't think of that, i guess because i grew up going to the mountains as much as possible. I know guides don't just drive you to the game but you gotta admit it would be more fun if you got to do it yourself. Thats just what i think. There's just a sense of pride in it. that may just be my personality or something like that. Don't get me wrong though, i'm saying anything bad about people that take guided hunts (well, maybe i'm saying something bad about the guy thats going to shoot that $30000 buck)
If anybody else has bird dogs, its kind of like this. I've hunting with other people that had dogs and it was fun, but it's that much more fun when its MY dog and I'M the one that spent the hours training him and he's doing what I say. I know somebody's going to tell me that not everybody has the time to scout for game and thats what you pay the guide for but I just enjoy the experience of doing myself even if i go into an area i've never been and don't know where the game hangs out at. I can look at a map and find what i would think a good spot is. anyway, i'm rambling now so i'll shutup.

Whatever you do, Cob, don't shutup. I like your posts.

If I won an Alaskan Brown Bear hunt, would I go? No doubt. But like most people, I agree with you that the best things about hunting are free -- mountain air, the smells of fall, and swapping stories over a campfire. So I think guides tend to get under our skin because it seems almost like a form of prostitution. But I do think they have a place in the world, and without them I think there'd be a steep drop in interstate hunting -- which in turn would translate into less support for hunting as a whole.

So I suffer the existence of guides, outfitters, and the wealthy that buy them -- so long as they don't pull a Ted Turner and attempt to monopolize the sport.

hahaha, prositution, good one. i agree there's no doubt i would go if i won any kind of hunt.