hmmmmm ... I would say even more rugged and remote than the Beartooths would be the Frank Church Wilderness in Idaho (though certainly not as high). But if you want to check out the Beartooths - that's okay.

Thank you Serious Hunter. Don't worry........I get the hint. But I am a serious, good hunter too.

The Frank Church is anomalous though in the river - floaters situation. You can hike or pack for miles and miles (literally days and days) and then you arrive at a back-country airfield ... charter planes fllying in and out, people from all over the globe loading and offloading, many in bathing suits, only an hour earlier having been in civilization proper, now sitting down to campground spreads with elaborate tables of wine and cheese ... and if you hike in view of the main rivers, you will look down to see essentially a steady stream of rafters, carefully metered by the Forest Service. So, if you are along the main Rivs, though you are in `Wilderness' - it may not seem very wildernessy.

There are some good books by Cort Conley on the Rivers, History, Mountain Men, etc. of Idaho - worth the read.

Also lingering in my mind is the Bob Marshall Wilderness in Montana. You could check that out It might be pretty wildernessy .

If I go and pack into an area for a week or two and I see anybody else, it ain't wilderness.

Yeah, he should try Montana.

Wilderness is in the eye of the beholder I guess. If someone lives in the city their idea of wilderness is not likely the same as someone who lives in semi-remote country.

The sad thing is that real 'wilderness' is becoming hard to find. If you aren't bumping into guides and outfitters you are running into 'eco-tour operators'.

We need to start a depopulation program and forget about 'annual immigration quotas'. Our entire economy (US & Canada) is based on growth, so things will just keep getting worse.

No offence to those who immigrate to our countries..............I just think we have more than enough people and it is too bad everyone feels the need to produce their 1.5 children per family. If anything we could use less people.

I sound like I have a really bad attitude don't I?!

How far north are you? Maybe you just need some sunshine!

You know they make those nifty sunlamps!

cowgal.................good idea but it won't change my opinion of the fact that we have to many people. If most hunters in a lot of the states think there are access problems now and too much private land etc........just wait another 10 or 20 years.

Say, we had some pretty good northern lights last night......anyone else?

Ahh... would love to have seen the lights, but I'm too far south. Those are not the type of lights that will improve your disposition though. Not sure what you can do about the people problem, just be glad you don't live in China!

Guess we're a bit off topic here.

About the wilderness question, Colorado has some great wilderness areas, in fact some very large & rugged ones. It might worth a look.