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CVC
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Remington's Response to CNBC

A good read and provides the other side of the story.

http://remington700.tv/pdf/Remington10-29-10.pdf

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Safety problems

Perhaps this should also be shown, as it's straight from Remington's site as well. FAR fewer M600/660s were produced and ALL were produced before the change allowing the bolt to be opened with the safety in the SAFE position. It's my understanding that the models 600, 660 and also model Sevens all have/had the same fire control system (prior to the newer X Mark Pro Trigger guns)

http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-resources/safety-center/safety-m...

This link provides interesting information on both the 700 and 600/660 rifles. Be sure to read both pages. The author is actually defending Remington, but the numbers (statistics) are bothersome, to say the least. There is an update issued by the author in 10/2010 on the bottom of page two that should be of some interest as well.

http://hunting.about.com/od/guns/a/aacbsnewsrem700.htm

 

 

 

CVC
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I read the second article

I read the second article that you linked to in the second link and found it very interesting.  If you read it, you must finish it otherwise you'll not get the full opinion of the author.  I read the first page and was disappointed with him.

He seemed to be defending Remington and blaming the mother for killing her son.  He blamed poor gun handling and failure to follow the basic safety rules of gun handling.  In fact, I think he was of the opinion that Remington was not to blame.

But as you read the second page his opinion changes and he does blame Remington.  The guy is obviously pro gun, and anti-mainstream media, but he comes to the conclusion that Remington needs to recall the 700.

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article

CVC wrote:

I read the second article that you linked to in the second link and found it very interesting.  If you read it, you must finish it otherwise you'll not get the full opinion of the author.  I read the first page and was disappointed with him.

He seemed to be defending Remington and blaming the mother for killing her son.  He blamed poor gun handling and failure to follow the basic safety rules of gun handling.  In fact, I think he was of the opinion that Remington was not to blame.

But as you read the second page his opinion changes and he does blame Remington.  The guy is obviously pro gun, and anti-mainstream media, but he comes to the conclusion that Remington needs to recall the 700.

 

I felt exactly the same way, reading the entire article. The first time I read that article, the October 2010 update had not been added. It makes a big difference in the tone of the article and I commend the author for being so honest when he found out additional information, apparently. I have no beef with Remington and own many of their rifles, perhaps 12 or more CF rifles made by them at this time. I am disturbed by what I've read, seen and found out, however. 

CVC
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As like many issues, you hear

As like many issues, you hear one side and think the other side is wrong, but then you hear their rebuttal and think, oh, maybe they are not to blame after all.  The CNBC story was very convincing, but then you read the Remington rebuttal and you think maybe CNBC did mislead the viewer.  Here are the points that stick in my mind.

The video of the rifle going off with a light touch to the bolt by the military or police guy (foget exactly which he was).

The judge noting for the record that the gun went off in court.

The interview with Walker who blames manufacturing. 

Now indeed grit and grime could play a factor, but I think a gun manufacturer should know this and design a gun for real world conditions.

You should, but in real life you simply cannot point the gun in a safe direction at all times.

For example, at the range for some reason unknown to me and the other shooter (he simply had a brain fart), he headed down range while it was still hot.  I saw him and ceased firing, but suppose that in addition to cease firing I went another step and put the rifle on safe or unchambered my round and it went off.

Sure, you could blame me or the the guy who went down range when it was hot, but would it really have been our fault or the rifle's malfunction?  A rifle just isn't suppose to fire when you move the safety or touch the bolt.

i am not sure if the Remington 700 does do this, but there is sure a lot of info to suggest that it does.

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gun safety

CVC wrote:

For example, at the range for some reason unknown to me and the other shooter (he simply had a brain fart), he headed down range while it was still hot.  I saw him and ceased firing, but suppose that in addition to cease firing I went another step and put the rifle on safe or unchambered my round and it went off.

Sure, you could blame me or the the guy who went down range when it was hot, but would it really have been our fault or the rifle's malfunction?  A rifle just isn't suppose to fire when you move the safety or touch the bolt.

i am not sure if the Remington 700 does do this, but there is sure a lot of info to suggest that it does.

This is the exact reason why a few years ago I had voiced my concern with my regular shooting ranges rule change.  The range is the only shooting range in the country that's located on and owned by the State Park system, but privately managed and operated under contract. The old managment of that range required every shooter to have ALL long guns uncased and action open before entering the range and remain that way until on the firing line muzzle pointed down range.  I completely agree and see this as the safest way. 

The current family who operates the range changed that rule in 2003 or 2004 to read that ALL guns must be cased before entering the range, and remain cased while at the range when not on the firing line.  That bothers me badly since I routinely see cased guns being handled in a much different manner than when guns are uncased.  I also see guns in cases pointed in all directions while laying on a bench or against a wall or something.  I feel much better looking at a gun uncased with the action open, that way I can visually see it's safe.  I can't tell what safe is when a gun of unknown condition is fully cased.  A case isn't going to stop a bullet, and nobody inspects any cased guns for clear when entering the range.  I've voiced that concern to the new range management a few years ago who have yet to change back to the older better safer rule. 

CVC
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I agree.

I agree.

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The American Rifleman

Just got my latest issue of The American Rifleman magazine.  They have a 3 page article in response to CNBCs investigative report on the 700.  It has some good points and many observations I've also made about the main stream media.  If you guys get the magazine take a look.  CNBC and NBCs investigative reports are full of flaws and holes and doctored up tests and documents.  Still I do have to say there needs to be an element of corporate responsibility on both Remington's and CNBC's part. 

 

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I have owned a lot of

I have owned a lot of Remington rifles, 600's, 660's, 788's and 700's. I have never seen one of these accidents occur and have tried to reproduce them and have never been able to do it. I really believe that while a malfunction is possible with any product, the one's with these rifles were caused by trigger's being improperly adjusted, maintenance being neglected and/or improper handling of the weapon. Years ago I watched a program on TV going after Ruger for a flawed Blackhawk and remington for a flawded trigger on a 700. The plaintif was the widow and claimed her husband was killed by a malfunctioning firearm. Seems this fire arms expert was carrying a Blackhawk with six rounds in the chamber in a holster and dropped it on the floor fireing the weapon and killing the "firearms expert". This happened with a pre-transfer bar Blackhawk, duh!

The next was an experienced hunter that blew his foot off with one of the malfunctioning Rem 700's. As the story went the guy got back into his truck with the loaded rifle, had it pointing at his foot and was unloading when it went off. Duh! First off why was he unloading AFTER getting back in the car, next, why was he chambering a round and closing the bolt on the live round to unload the rifle. No bolt action requires closing the bolt on a live round to unload it. Last, why was he doing just that and pointing the gun at his own foot? I'm quite certain he did not do that on purpose to try and get money from Remington and I'm also certain it was an accident caused by gross negligence of the gun handler, both cases were.

I give Remington a pass. As I said any manufacturer can turn out a product that for one reason or other malfunction's but with a firearm there should still be personnel responsibility and that is where the failure came in. I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT ALL MY REMINGTON RIFLES, IN FACT EVERY RIFLE AND HANDGUN I HAVE EVER OWNED IS/WAS JUST AS SAFE AS THE GUY HANDLEING IT!

These stories are as bad as the cars that blew up because the gas tanks were in the rear. Hell, they blew up because someone else rear ended them!

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Investigative reports

Don Fischer wrote:

These stories are as bad as the cars that blew up because the gas tanks were in the rear. Hell, they blew up because someone else rear ended them!

Funny you should bring that up because there have also been investigative reports on that same issue with Chevy trucks on the same news network.  But the news organization couldn't get the result they wanted on camera so they rigged the gas tank with explosives for dramatic affect.  Just imagine the awe when the average viewer sees that.  One of our local channels (NBC) here did the same thing with Ford F150 pick-ups back in the late 1980's I recall.  They were exposed for doing it a few month later.  Ford actually sued them and the investigative reporter lost his job as well as his credibility.  These investigative reporters and the networks they work for need to be held accountable to the highest degree and the viewers need to be smart enough to call these networks out on stuff like this.

As far as Remington goes.  My experience has been the same as your Don.  I've owned and sold a few 700's, fired them extensively and hunted with them, never a problem.  I give Remington more of a pass than I do the news organizations.  I do however think Remington as well as all gun makers need to be held accountable to do something about it if there is a problem and they know it.  As I said before I know of at least one recall from Beretta in the recent past that was a true recalls due to a safety issues.  I heard about it 3rd hand.  No info on Berettas website, nor any announcement in any of the gun rags, internet had only a few sites mensioning it and when contacting Beretta they confirmed it.  WTF!!  Almost the exact same thing occured with the recall Speer had on certain lots of it's Gold Dot 9x19mm and .40 S&W handguns ammo back in 2001/2002, but that was a potential reliability issue due to an unathorized change in the primers being used.  As far as I know nobody actually had any failures with that ammo and I had a bunch of it myself.

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My question on this is has

My question on this is has any ammo been checked out? I have a hand that works with me that had some reloads that would go off if you ran the bolt with any force. I asked for them and what I found out is that the primers weren't seated all the way and the bullet wasn't set to the length that is in my book. With that said I am just getting started reloading but I traded him a box of factory loads for 2 boxes that would go off in his gun and I broke them apart and reloaded to mid specs.

This may have been answered but I didnt see it.

thanks James 

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