Take anything you see on the net with a grain of salt but Remington actually had this on their site a few years back as well. They know about it and was replacing the triggers of the affected rifles. I had one of mine replaced. As I recall, it was a limited time offer by remington. However, an after-market trigger fixes the problem as well. It only affects the older 700's that don't have the safety mech. that allows you to cycle the bolt with the safety on. In other words, you have to remove the safety to eject the unfired cartridge. If you have one like that, then you should consult a rem. repair shop or replace the trigger. It only affected a certain group of ser. #s
42 replies [Last post]
Fri, 2010-10-29 18:11#11
Take anything you see on the
Fri, 2010-10-29 18:16#12
Here is the link you
Here is the link you guys/gals are looking for:
Thu, 2010-11-04 15:23#13
Since 1963 the 700 has NEVER
Since 1963 the 700 has NEVER been drop safe like the Winchesters and Rugers. Meaning its a saftey block not a saftey disengament (just like 90% of the shotguns on the market). To make matters worse people monkey with the trigger & improperly lighten them to much causing the issue to be even worse and creating new issues. This goes on top of not properly maintaining them over time.
Big issue.......safe gun handling. Would any of those people gotten hurt, injured or killed (sorry that they did) if they had followed the 4 core safety rules: 1.) Treated all firearms as they are loaded 2.) Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction 3.) Keep your finger off the trigger at all times until your prepared to fire. 4.) Never point the muzzle at anything you dont wish to distroy. Probably not........
I've personally got 20 years behind the 700, 10 of which "on the job" and several thousand rounds down range in both long and short action version. I've never had an issue with them or seen this type of malfuntion on a factory set up rig. I have seen custom guns and bubba guns with super light triggers do this before but never a factory set up rig. Yup the Marines and Army have been using the 700s for years as primary sniper rifles. The Marines custom build thiers and tune the factory triggers and the Army has Remington build em and then the tune up the triggers. Bottom line is the 700 is not drop safe and $hit happen sometimes.
I 100% agree it IS a design flaw and there are better safteys out there. Guns are machines and like all machines can break or malfunction. The media is hyping this stuff up cause its an election year again. Fact of the matter is more people are killed every year by lighting strikes than the 700 saftey failing and those people injured or killed could have most likely prevented it IF that had followed proper gun saftey.
The video from Remington clears up a lot of BS the "journalist" failed to report.
Off my soap box.
Fri, 2010-11-05 06:40#14
Well Remington I agree to a certain point. One of the things that I always marvel about with gun maintenance is the fact that many shooter's and gun owner's definition of clean is simply swabing the bore or simply wiping down the exterior and that's it. I can't tell you how many times I've discovered grit, grease, grime, even vegitation particles in a trigger mechanisms that were interfering with the trigger or safety or would eventually do so if not remedied. Not to mension rust and normal wear on the sear. This stuff needs vigilant attention that more time than not get overlooked or forgotten about by the owners or operator of a firearm.
BUT (there's always a but) The big issue in gun safety is safe handling. It's been shoved down our heads for years to always keep a muzzle pointed in a safe direction and make no mistake that this is one of many good practices to follow when handling a mechanically sound firearm. BUT, what is a safe direction to point the muzzle in if you are handling a potentially defective design and you never know when or if that gun is going to go off on it's own? With a design flaw and bad safety mechanism design what is a safe muzzle direction? In those circumstances there is no safe direction. That question was asked by one of the gunsmiths on the news documentary and it really got me thinking about certain safe handling practices that we take for granted and do repedatively out of habit. One thing that's constantly been engrained in our heads as shooters and gun owners is that gun's don't tend to go off by themselves. I've even been guilty of repeating that same erroneous blind sighted philosophy. We you know, sometimes some guns do go off without any touch of the trigger. The 700 is not the only firearms to do so. Even some older military sidearms were know to do this as well. Japanese Nambu and even some runs of late war Walther P38 and Browning P35 pistols just to name a few. To be fair the Walther and the Browning are very very safe and mechnically sound by designs, it's just that many late war models of these pistols had some manufacturing flaws or manufacturing sabotage done by slave laborers that rendered some late war productions of the guns less safe. I've seen quite a few fine examples of this first hand. Safe gun handling should be number 1 priority. I just think we need to be smarter about what is a safe muzzle direction. Especially when dealing with a potentially defective design.
Fri, 2010-11-05 07:27#15
You are right about being
You are right about being smarter about what is safe muzzle direction. Unfortunately, I think just about every hunter has pointed their gun in the wrong direction even for just a split second. It happens and most of the time there is no harm from it, but occassionally tragedy strikes. i don't understand corporations who put profit over acting ethically even when they know there is potential for death. Toyota allegedly has done this with their gas pedal and other corporations are guilty of it in the past.
The family whose nine year old boy was killed will suffer from his preventable death for the rest of their lives. I wish corporations would think about these things. Still, as you point out the responsibility for safe gun handling lies with us.
Mon, 2010-11-08 10:59#16
You can make any excuses you
You can make any excuses you want for Remington, but a rifle is not supposed to fire when the safety is moved from (SO-CALLED) SAFE, or fail to fire when the trigger is pulled, then fire when the bolt is lifted!
The rifle in it’s factory delivered condition is UNSAFE, and it is not the customer’s responsibility to correct these design flaws. Everyone, who has any business handling a rifle, knows you don’t point a firearm at anything you don’t intend shooting. The barrel, however, is always pointed at something, and if the rifle fires when it is not supposed to, it may kill someone a mile away!
Gentlemen Remington has known about this since the 1940s with the predecessor of the 700, and because the fix would require a design change that cost no more than one dollar per rifle to fix, and could be passed on to the customer. The damn 700 Remington is unsafe as delivered, and Remington needs to fix it or stop selling the damn thing!
Mon, 2010-11-08 11:27#17
needs to be addresses
Remington has produced tens of thousands,maybe even hundreds of thousands of the Model 700. The numbers of incidents from true factroy defects is relatively low. Still when it comes to safety and entrusting safety to a major player in the arms maker industry Remington needs to address this issue way more than they have. I just don't think they've done nearly as much as they could do to address the issue. We've see alot of this in many industries over the years from tires, to automobiles, to power tools, to household items.
To be fair the 700's action has not only spent decades in the field hunting with civilians, but it has also served loyaly and effectively with the US Army and USMC as a platform for a proven battelfield sniper rifle since Vietnam, as well as in the same role with law enforcement in various forms over the years.
I think people greatly increase their risk of this potential design flaw showing up more and more on the 700 if they tend to work on thier trigger and lighten it's pull from the factory adjustments.
Mon, 2010-11-08 23:14#18
What is worrisome to me is that this can happen to firearms that have been used for years and seemingly do not have the misfiring problem. Had the misfires not happened to my husband, I would have been very skeptical of the problem. He takes excellent care of his firearms and always, always points them in a safe direction.
Someone above asked if the accidents and fatalities would have happened if safety had been practiced, maybe not, but you never know for sure. Plus it's hard to know if all of the reported accidents were indeed due to misfires.
BTW we still own 700s.
Tue, 2010-11-09 05:25#19
i am surprised this story is
i am surprised this story is not be carried by the main stream media. It could be spun into an anti-gun story so for that reason I would think they would report, but it has the anti-corporation side to it too.
So people get on here and post and you take it with a grain of salt, but I don't doubt cowgal for sec.
Tue, 2010-11-09 10:18#20
I think by the way the original story was done it would be very difficult for the competitor news organizations to spin it wrong. CNBC was the one who made this an hour long news report special. To my amazement they actually did a very good job of not bad mouthing gun ownership, hunting, or sport shooting. In fact to my surprise they actually went one step further by reinforceing and mensioning the importance of the 2nd amendment. From what I watched, it appeared to me that the main focus was placed on unethical corporate parctices and putting profits above public safety. The same type of things has been reported before and recently about many other corporations not involved in arms making. They seemed to keep the focus of this report on corporate practices, cultures, public safety, and design flaws, hence it was on Remington as a company and on one of their products - the 700. Nowhere did they even indicate that this should be any reason to ban guns or over regulate the industry. At least I didn't get the impression they were trying to put an anti-gun spin on things. I thought it was a well done news documentary. Keep in mind that CNBC is part of the mainstream media too.