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Location: NONYA,thats in MONTANA
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R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

Im sure he has never had any help of any kind on any of his hunts,I dont know anyone who hunts without getting help from someone,but hes different. Yes

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Location: Seattle, WA
Joined: 07/27/2005
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R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

I fall somewhere in between on these posts. Being someone who works there ever-lovin (%&^*&^off to get my animals on public land, I look at these people that jump on a plane, hand the guide 5,000.00 and follow him around like a lost puppy. I see it on TV. and I am both jealous and contemptous at the same time. To me, hunting is an entire package. That means planning, studying and knowing the proposed turf. Designing your own pack-full of survival gear and hunting gear etc. In other words, from the ground up. I also somewhat believe that private hunting ranches (especially on TV) show a marginal viewing of what hunting is all about to those that don't hunt. As a hunter, that bothers me because non hunter typs that somehow surf onto one of those TV channels will get a perverted idea of what hunting was meant to be. Maybe I'm a purist, but to me hunting is about (in part) defining one's own ability to go out and provide meat to the table-to show you CAN do it and therefore show that you belong as the king of predators. You only define a small portion of that when you don't spearhead the package yourself. After all hunting is about defining one's ability to be self proficient in the woods, craftiness, resourcefullness and the satisfaction you can do it all. Today, hunting is becoming more about trophies, the killing, and how to acquire property that keeps others out-and avoid any time consuming preparation. As a public land hunter I am extremely successfull. But, I have to use ALL my own skills to accomplish that. Being guided on private or public land is about being dependent on someone elses skill to scout, define strategy and know the terrain. Therefore, I somewhat feel that the sport could be improperly portayed to non-hunters which in today's world scares the crap out of me. With all the activists and idiots out there that have their collective eyes on the great sport of hunting, we need to be extra carefull in not only defining the TRUE meaning of what hunting is, but also how we bring it to the non hunting public. I don't want my hunting to end up being relegated to private game reserves etc. We as hunters know that we are truly the ones that are protecting our beloved animals and natural resources so we might enjoy & tap those resources. Reality TV is going to hurt our sport in the long run-trust me. As for folks that maintain food plots and all that-again I have mixed feelings. Did the hunters of old lure animals in with bait? Did they give a damn how big the animals rack was? Did mother nature grow that animal to stature-or did you. I just don't know. I struggle with all this as a man who loves and could never live without hunting and the great outdoor skills that should be a neccessity in skill sets. I could go on and on. Sorry for the editorial. But I fall in limbo (in the middle) between the original poster of this thread and some of the disagreers. Yes, you should have your rights to do what you see fit...but it isnt the true definition of hunting and definitely not mine. Hunting has (and is) changing from what it use to be, and some of the changes have perverted the sport.

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R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????
jigman wrote:
I also somewhat believe that private hunting ranches (especially on TV) show a marginal viewing of what hunting is all about to those that don't hunt.

That's TV shows, you can't compare that to real hunting on a private ranch. I think most of the stuff on TV is staged, they make it look too easy, even on private ranches or guided hunts. I know many guides who's clients do not have 100% success in harvesting their deer or elk.

Granted, public land hunting is generally tougher, primarily because there is more pressure and people need to get "off the beaten path" so to speak, to have a good chance at their game animals. But even on public land you can make things easier on yourself by using horses, ATVs, friends, etc. How is that different from a guide providing them?

There's a new article here on BGH that talks about trophy whitetail taken in eastern suburbs. No guides, no ranches, just some suburbs with lots of deer and some are trophies. So should they be excluded?
Hunting in Suburbia - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly

Hunting covers a broad range of styles, skills & weapons used. If we start splitting hairs and claiming guided or private ranch hunts shouldn't be considered "real" hunting, then we're dividing ourselves as hunters and giving the antis great opportunity to "conquer & divide".

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R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

jigman

WELL DONE

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Location: NONYA,thats in MONTANA
Joined: 07/22/2005
Posts: 242
R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

back to the topic,regardless of how "easy" the hunt was any animal taken in a fair chase situation should still be entered in the record books,is it that big a deal?I know many people including myself that have taken record book animals and never made an effort to have them officialy scored by B&C.How would they ever prove where it was taken and if it was an unguided hunt anyhow?If I could afford it i would go on many guided hunts and im sure you guys would also. Think

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Location: Alabama
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R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

Jigman you keep emphasizing that you are completely independent. i.e

Quote:
But, I have to use ALL my own skills to accomplish that
Quote:
Being guided on private or public land is about being dependent on someone elses skill

Are you saying that you all at once at whatever age you were, out of the blue went and bought a rifle, found a place to hunt, and did and learned all the things necessary to become proficient at hunting by your sole self with absolutely no help from anyone what so ever??

I can't say that. I've had help learning all kinds of things from all sorts of people. And there are some things that I've learned on my own but not many.

If a guide guides me on public or private property does that mean that if I come back next season and hunt the area myself b/c of what I learned from him/her that I am not as good as some one else? I think in the end that we all have had some help from somone.

Please don't take offense. I'm not trying to get at you personally, I'm just asking questions Big smile

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Location: Seattle, WA
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R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

No offense taken at all. I pretty much learned everything from my Father and older brothers...and my own research through listening to others, reading etc.
But, I also live in the great Northwest where I could literally walk out my back door while growing up as a kid, and be in the hunting grounds. I'd go solo for hours carrying a BB gun, then a .22 with birdshot, then a 30-30 and a shotgun, sometimes a bow and I'd leave on a snowy morning and return just before dark. I would hike and hike. I am 46 years old now, I no longer live in the country (rather the big city) but it's still reltively easy for me to get to the happy hunting grounds. i have had to modify them a bit over the years to get farther and farther away from the madding crowds. No, I'm not agianst being guided at all-its just the way some folks are guided that can cloud the true meaning of hunting. Example: Knock on the hunting lodge door, shown to your quarters, driven or escorted out to a likely stand or blind and then wait & shoot. Thats not hunting. Then they clean and prepare the animal for you-thats not hunting. They feed the deer on food-plots and you are now farming livestock and/or baiting-thats not hunting-thats farming & harvesting. get my drift? Then on top of it all you farm trophy deer by giving them super feeds and minerals and such to create mutant racks-thats just not natural-its manipulating natur so you can get an animal who's worth is measureed by its rack instead of how great the venison tasted-or how crafty he was that you totally outwitted him. You didnt outwit him-you baited, created and farmed him for ultimate harvest-thats not hunting. Keep in mind when I say you, I'm not referring to anyone in particular except to whom this applies. fortunately, most outfitter/guides out here are more wrangler, transportation services (horses) than anything else. Most hunting here is on public land. I hope it stays that way.

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Joined: 02/15/2005
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R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

who took those pictures for you ?....You pack everything out by yourself ?........Hunt by Yourself ? Was that your first hunt in each of those area's or had you been their before with someone ?.....Did you learn how to hunt on your own, or did you have a father or someone to teach you ?.........Think about it dude....you were guided one time or another!....you have to learn some way ! Even if its by reading a magazine !
P.S. Nice pictures.....but their are easier ways of presenting them !

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Location: NONYA,thats in MONTANA
Joined: 07/22/2005
Posts: 242
R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

LOL 7mm Thumbs up

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Joined: 02/15/2005
Posts: 3
R Guideed & Private Land, Really Hunting?????????

What part of MO are ya from nevadahntr ? I have a hunt booked in MO....for 2006.......with Flatwillow Creek Outfitters.....gonna try those mule deer

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