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Joined: 07/29/2008
Posts: 723
Pull out of Chicago!

CVC right you are about the your/our, for better or worse whoever we vote for is it.

Actually I thought Bush fairly bright especially when speaking on familiar ground. He scored higher on military inteligence test than Kerry. I think his mistakes with word usage is just some brain thing. He and Palin often seem earily similar to me. Very inteligent but not much intillectual curiousity. Not able to accomodate differing views.

I still think increasing the minimum would be a benefit. If hamburgers cost 30% more so what. Houses? Most are much bigger than we need. People should find the time to mow their own lawns. If minimum kept people out of poverty they could buy more. Henry Ford wanted every worker in his factory to be able to afford one of his cars, so he could sell them one. It would increase efficiency as we discarded labor intensive technology. One out of six kids lives in poverty.

There is truth to the idea of poverty being simply result of being the poorest person, still many western countries have higher wages than us.

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Location: Florida,USA
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Pull out of Chicago!

Thanks for the reply, finally.
To me it matters not where your income came from as you support a president elect who wants to "Spread the wealth" yet you don't follow this doctrine yourself. Interesting.
Your description of your business plan astounds me and coupled with your sentiments on minimum wage shows your lack of knowledge of even simple Economics
Economics Rule: increase production cost=increase in wholesale price, accordingly to maintain profit margin of producer=increase in retail price

So according to above rule increase in minimum wage accelerates inflation thus putting minimum wage earner in exactly same financial spot as before wage increase, or worse...maybe unemployed.
An employer will not "absorb" an increase in minimum wage but rather pass it on.
Last I read we were on Topic until you threw in the Bush and Republican bashing.
Facts are irrefutable, although Bush has gotten dirty also it is the Housing and Banking fiasco that has caused this economy down swing but it is the result of Democratic installed policies starting with Clintons and the Democratically controlled Congress that passed The Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992.
Irrefutable fact also that Democrats have controlled Congress for the last 2 years and look at the state of the economy with them in charge. They have done nothing but pass this silly Bail out plan.
Refute these facts with Government Documents and not Wing-nut, kool-aid cafe websites and/or publications.
My sources are facts as presented in Government archives.

expatriate's picture
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Location: Arizona
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Posts: 3207
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Wow. Look at the elitism coming out of Civet. So what if hamburgers cost 30 percent more? It must be nice to not have to worry about the cost of restaurant food. 30 percent more for a burger is a lot to someone making minimum wage.

Houses too big? There's a Marxist argument if I've ever heard one -- the Left telling me how much house I "need", which is eerily similar to passing judgment on whether I "need" an SUV. America is supposed to be the place where I can make my own choices.

Mowing my own lawn? Already doing it -- and far less likely to hire someone else to do it, because I can't afford the labor. Bang -- just took a few bucks out of somebody's pocket.

Increasing efficiency by discarding labor intensive technology? I agree -- but the main reason for automation has been increased labor costs. Raise the cost of labor, and automation becomes more attractive -- and the number of unskilled jobs decreases.

Marxism is ultimately grounded in the idea that you can eliminate poverty. But in application, poverty increases because there is no incentive for success. The only way to fund the bottom is to pull down the top -- and that decimates the top tier that drives the economy. And there's no reason to apply oneself, because all that education and work yields little result. There has never been a society that successfully eliminated poverty, because social stratification always exists, no matter how society as a whole lives. The poorest people in America live like kings compared to the poor in Africa.

There's a reason why redistributive economics has failed wherever it's been tried. Both Russia and China had to impose capitalist economic reforms to get their economies going. Similarly, Eastern Europe has embraced capitalism and their economies are taking off. On the other hand, North Korea and Cuba are barely hanging on.

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Location: Chambersburg Pa
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Pull out of Chicago!

If minimum wage goes up 30% then everything else will raise 30% getting us right back where we were. Civetcat has not posted a decent response yet his ideas just get blown away with proof. I VOTED for Mccain and I am glad i did so, saddly the media is terrible bias and the mighty Black Obama won sad . Mccain lost not because of cold hard facts or a dumb campaign but because African-Americans are more racist then Caucasian's. I am not trying to sound racist because i am not but 97% of the black vote went to Obama not because of morals or beliefs but because he was the same color as them. I'm not sure but I doubt that 97% of black voters voted for any past democratic presidents. It is idiotic that the american people voted for a president based on race. Obama only won Urban cities he did not win the rural areas, the heart of america. Obama didn't win the election based on economics he won Ohio based on economics. I can't change anything but boy would i like to.

Two more things: 1. To the people who said Mccain was to old he was only two years older then Reagon was when he was voted in and Wisdom comes with Age
2. A country's Economics are not effected for eight years. ? Who was president eight years ago Thats right Bill Clinton agian the economy is shaky because of what happened during his terms

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Pull out of Chicago!
civetcat wrote:
There is truth to the idea of poverty being simply result of being the poorest person, still many western countries have higher wages than us.

I'd love to see the Names of these countries and the source for this claim.

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Bennett454, not sure if we can put all the blame on African-Americans for the way they voted. Look at how the media hyped this election. They wanted Obama to win, it was newsworthy and they led everyone to believe that voting for him, would make them a part of this history.

This campaign was not about issues (in the media's eyes) it was about an event. Even white supporters I talked to had stars in their eyes when they talked about Obama, and being a part of this historical event.

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By the way, you also bear in mind that demographic information isn't gathered in the voting booth. That figure (I'd heard 95%) was gathered from exit polls -- and people taking exit polls are notoriously concerned that their answers aren't private. That's why they're generally not that accurate.

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Quote:
Names of these countries and the source for this claim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

Quote:
If minimum wage goes up 30% then everything else will raise 30%

Sorry but minimum wage isn't 100% of all costs of doing business. The percent of people getting minimum isn't 100%, and I was talking about raising it 300% anyway.

Quote:
Civetcat has not posted a decent response yet

I also post on two other forums, have a family and a business, and like reading a lot, and sometimes I just don't want to argue. Second rifle is long over but I might just go shoot some coyotees out of general cusedness, if so you might have to wait a while for responses.

Quote:
I am not trying to sound racist because i am not

ok

Quote:
Obama only won Urban cities he did not win the rural areas

White women tipped his way also, he he he.
He made gains across the whole spectrum of the electorate, majorities in rural areas weren't for him but by increasing their percent he was able to win states such as North Carolina, Virginia, Indiana, and so on.
http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/map.html?scp=3&sq=el...
Click on the tab calle voting shifts on the interactive map and you can see areas becoming more red or blue.

Quote:
Mccain was to old he was only two years older then Reagon

Another big government, tax raising, deficit increasing incompetent geriatric alziemers patient.

Quote:
30 percent more for a burger is a lot to someone making minimum wage

Not if their wages just increased 300%

Quote:
Houses too big? There's a Marxist argument

Government Bookstores in Communist countries sell pictures of Lenin or Mao or Uncle Ho, not Marx, commies are just into getting and maintaining power as a route to stealing money these days, kind of reminds me of a certain grand party. (old)

Look rather than belabor the point lets just all agree that American has decided to become a socialist country led by someone who palls around with terorists. Buy a Koran, bow down to the east 5 times a day, send all your guns to me, and practice the secret terrorist fist bump greeting.

Fist bump

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Location: Chambersburg Pa
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Posts: 14
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Civetcat i am not racist i am just saying that the american people voted for him because of his color in alot of cases not all but alot of people wanted to make history or whatever. In my eyes he is the same as any other american just with extremly liberal views, and his choice for vice president is know better.
.

QUOTE
and I was talking about raising it 300% anyway.

Then may the price of Hamburgers go up 30%

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Location: Pueblo Colorado
Joined: 12/18/2006
Posts: 1772
Pull out of Chicago!
Bennett454 wrote:
Civetcat i am not racist i am just saying that the american people voted for him because of his color in alot of cases not all but alot of people wanted to make history or whatever. In my eyes he is the same as any other american just with extremly liberal views, and his choice for vice president is know better.
.

QUOTE
and I was talking about raising it 300% anyway.

Then may the price of Hamburgers go up 30%

I'm not black and I voted for him. My family members aren't black either and voted for him. I have two hunting buddies who are white as alabaster who voted for him as well. Unlike Cowgal's assertion that people wanted to be part of a big media event we didn't vote for him for that reason either. We agreed with his stances on most issues. While I am sure some blacks voted for him simply because he is black you can't pin that argument on all blacks. If you are going to go that route there are whites, even democrat whites, who would never vote for a black man. Why then hasn't Alan Keys or Jess Jackson or any other black politician risen to that level.

Learn to accept that he won and get used to it. Or don't and start a revolution against our country because you feel a black marxist has taken over. Either way do what makes you happy friend.

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